• Michael Riedel: Broadway's most outspoken voice brings 'Razzle Dazzle' to Denver

    by John Moore | Oct 11, 2015

    In the history of Broadway, there have been few characters onstage as colorful and controversial as Michael Riedel, the self-made journalist whose skewering of Broadway gypsies, scamps and thieves in the New York dailies has made him one of the most feared and revered theatre personalities of the past quarter-century.

    Riedel’s oversight has spanned gossip to hard-hitting investigative journalism. Acting as the proudly opinionated moral conscience of Broadway, he has never minced words when it has come to rooting out those he has perceived to be crooks. The theatre elite have both demanded and dreaded his attention.

    Take, for example, what Riedel has to say about controversial producer Mitchell Maxwell. For a time, Maxwell ran Denver’s New Civic Theatre (now the Su Teatro Performing Arts Center), where he prepared Brooklyn The Musical for its Broadway run in 2004:

    “I have a nose for things that smell badly, and from the moment I met him, Mitchell set my nose twitching. I just never trusted him. He was a walking oil slick.”

    Or how about controversial Canadian producer Garth Drabinsky, who in 2009 was convicted and sentenced to prison for fraud and forgery:

    “I had a great time torturing Garth Drabinsky,” said Riedel. “And in the end, I was proven right. Because Garth went to jail, and I'm enjoying a glass of Chablis with my oysters right now.”

    While most New York theatre writers focus on what is happening onstage, Riedel has relentlessly chronicled all of the off-stage shenanigans for the New York Daily News and New York Post. But he is also a tireless champion for shows he has liked, such as The Lion King, Mamma Mia and Spring Awakening.

    And for those he hasn’t?

    “When shows are disasters," he said, "I am the first one to get out my spade and start digging their graves.”

    Riedel’s stranger-than-fiction real-life story starts with the then-new Columbia graduate’s plans for becoming a lawyer getting derailed when he was offered a job writing for TheatreWeek Magazine - when he was at a kegger.

    Riedel will bring his colorful stories to the Denver Center on Thursday (Oct. 15) for what promises to be a fiery discussion and Q&A about his newly released debut book, Razzle Dazzle: The Battle for Broadway. He will talk about both the plays and power plays that make up his book, which serves as both a history and exposé of how theatre not only saved itself, but, in large part he believes, saved the city of New York.


    “Everybody talks about how it was (Mayor Rudy) Giuliani and Disney that saved Times Square,” Riedel said. “But I am going back further. In the late 1960s and early ‘70s, nobody thought Times Square could be turned around. Nobody cared. The various mayors’ attitude toward Broadway was, ‘Where is Broadway going to go? New Jersey? You're stuck here in this morass. Live with it.' But guys like Gerry Schoenfeld, who was president of the Shubert Organization, were already working to clean up Times Square.

    "And that cleanup could not have happened without great shows. If there had been no A Chorus Line … if there had been no 42nd Street … there would have been nothing there for people to go and see. If there had been no Annie, why would you ever take a family to Times Square in 1977?"

    Riedel was hired by TheatreWeek Magazine in 1989, and he became the theater columnist for the New York Post in 1998. He worked at the New York Daily News for five years before returning to the Post. He is also co-host of Theater Talk for PBS.

    The host of Thursday’s free discussion in the DCPA’s Conservatory Theatre in the Newman Center for Theatre Education will be David Stone. He’s the producer of both Wicked and If/Then, which launches its first national tour in Denver on Tuesday. Stone is proof that not every Broadway producer quakes in fear of Riedel. “He grew up in the business at the same time I did,” Riedel said, “and we have been friends since we both started out.”

    Riedel will take questions from the audience and sign copies of his book, which will be available for purchase on Thursday.

    Here are more excerpts from Michael Riedel’s conversation with DCPA Senior Arts Journalist John Moore:

    John Moore: So what did you really think of Brooklyn?


    Michael Riedel: Brooklyn is a great borough. It’s really come up in the world. There are great restaurants there.

    John Moore: Man, you really do not like Mitchell Maxwell, do you?

    Michael Riedel: I hope you ran him out of town. He's been thoroughly discredited on Broadway.

    John Moore: You seem to have the goods on everyone. How did all of this happen?

    Michael Riedel: To be honest with you, I just did it to have fun. I started out as a kid when I was 21. It was a lark. I got the job right out of college at a beer-keg party the weekend I was graduating. I was going to be a lawyer. I never thought I would have anything to do with the theatre, and certainly not journalism. If you read my column closely, you can still see I know nothing about the theatre or journalism. I just fell into it, and it turned out to be kind of fun.

    John Moore: But you have brought some of Broadway’s most powerful to their knees.

    Michael Riedel: But there was no grand plan. I was having such a good time interviewing colorful characters like Gerry Schoenfeld; Jimmy Nederlander; Fran and Barry Weissler; Cy Coleman and Charlie Strouse - and I think somehow the fun that I was having came across in my writing. This was at a time in the late ’80s and early ’90s when people really weren't paying attention to Broadway. This was before we had Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King and Wicked and all the big shows that everyone around the world now loves on Broadway. There was that dip after the success of those Cameron Mackintosh and Andrew Lloyd Webber shows where Broadway seemed kind of sleepy and tired. When I look back now, I was just a public voice who said to people who read the Daily News and New York Post, “You know what? These characters who run Broadway are interesting.” David Stone has always said to me, “People may hate you, but you made this business sound interesting at a time when very few people were paying attention."

    John Moore: So you did a public service.

    Michael Riedel: Well, I wouldn't go that far. I feel, like all good columnists, I did what I did in service to my own burning ambition. But it worked.

    John Moore: Tell us about the period of time you cover in Razzle Dazzle.

    Michael Riedel: The premise of the book is that New York City, Times Square and Broadway were all down and out in the late 1960s and early ’70s. The city was going bankrupt. Times Square was seedy and dangerous - not a place where any tourist wanted to be. Broadway was in trouble. The Shubert Organization was on the verge of insolvency. Theatres were being torn down. They had more value as parking lots. What I try to show in the book is that a handful of people stuck by Broadway in its hour of need: The Shuberts and Bernie Jacobs and Gerry Schoenfeld and the Nederlanders were buying theatres for a dime back in those days. But it was also artists like Michael Bennett and Joe Papp creating A Chorus Line ... David Merrick coming back with 42nd Street ... Cameron Mackintosh and Andrew Lloyd Webber coming to New York with Cats. Those guys saved Broadway and, in so doing, lifted not only the theatre world, but also Times Square, and ultimately New York City itself. Because New York has one thing that no other city in the world has, and that's Broadway. And when everything else was deserting New York in the 1970s, when New York was within hours of declaring bankruptcy, Broadway was still there for New York City. You still had Michael Bennett doing A Chorus Line. You still had Bob Fosse doing Chicago. You had Tom Meehan and Charles Strouse and Martin Charnin doing this little show called Annie that made Jimmy Nederlander and his empire.

    John Moore: How important was that to the overall revival of the city?

    Michael Riedel: I try get across in the book that the arts are crucial to the success of a city. We always hear about sports: “If we can get a baseball or a football or a basketball franchise, or build a new stadium, that's the most important thing.” But people do not appreciate or understand the fundamental significance and importance of the arts to the health of a great city.

    John Moore: All this championing is going to do nothing for your reputation.

    Michael Riedel: Hey, I've always been a champion of Broadway. But I've also realized that to be a champion, you have to make it entertaining. And, yes, gossip is entertaining. But Broadway is a place where they have tremendous successes - and I'm the first person to celebrate those successes. I was one of the very first people to champion The Lion King when it played its first preview in Minneapolis and no one in New York knew anything about it. I was an early supporter of Mamma Mia, and I loved Spring Awakening at its very first performance. But that doesn't mean that you cheerlead for everything.

    John Moore: The story of Broadway has been told in many ways, but no one has really written it from this perspective, have they?

    Michael Riedel: I don't think so, because I am going back to guys like Gerry Schoenfeld as president of the Shubert Organization. Gerry was a one-man band promoting the resurgence of Times Square. But he was just trying to clean it up piecemeal. He formed the Midtown Citizens Committee. Gerry was running around and trying to shut down sex shops one by one by dragging the police in off the streets.

    John Moore: Tell us one or two all-time favorite scoops.

    Michael Riedel: I was on to Garth Drabinsky very early on. I had an old friend named Arthur Cantor (producer of On Golden Pond) and I took him to the opening night of Showboat on Broadway that Hal Prince directed and Garth Drabinsky produced (in 1994). Garth was telling us all that it was the biggest hit in the world. But Arthur knew the numbers of every show at his fingertips. And so when Garth brought out the entire crew from backstage and they all took a bow, Arthur leaned over to me and he said, 'That show costs about $600,000 a week to run. There is no way it is going to make any money. This whole thing is a fraud.' And so I began to look closely at Garth's empire, and all the shows he was doing. Bit by bit, as I learned how the numbers work on Broadway, I realized that something was going on here that amounted to a Ponzi scheme. I confronted Garth after Ragtime opened on Broadway (in 1998), and I knew it was going to be overshadowed by The Lion King. I said, “Garth, I have to be honest with you: All the smart, savvy Broadway guys I know don't believe your numbers. They don't believe the grosses you are reporting. They don't believe the profits you are reporting.” And I will never forget this: He banged his desk so hard, my tape recorder was jingling all over the place. He said, “I am the most investigated man in the theatre. I have the (Securities and Exchange Commission) on my back. I have the Canadian Stock Exchange on my back. Everything I do is an open book.” Well, it turned out he had one book that was open … and he had another book that was tightly closed that showed the magnitude of his losses.

    John Moore: So you can't really mean it when you say you know nothing about theatre or journalism.

    Michael Riedel: No, but you have to understand: I never went to journalism school. I never really learned how to write. To me, it's just curiosity and all the great old journalists that I got to know when I was a kid at the Daily News in the early '90s. Not a single one of them was running around brandishing their Columbia journalism degree. My favorite reporters were the guys who reported about the mob. I just liked the way they worked. They had great sources. They had great curiosity about what was going on, and they were able to get people to tell them things that they shouldn't be telling them, and I guess that was my crash course in journalism. To me, journalism is fundamentally about reporting something that the people in power don't want people to know about.

    John Moore: Any other favorite bylines?

    Michael Riedel: I would have to say Spider-Man. I knew the players. I knew the early producers were not up to keeping spending under control. And I knew that Bono and The Edge had no experience on Broadway. I know how rock musicians work. They are never going to be around. I knew from my interviews with guys like Cy Coleman, Jule Styne and Charlie Strouse that when you are writing a musical, you have to be living it day and night to get it right. You can't have Bono and The Edge in New Zealand making gazillions of dollars on a concert and occasionally Skyping in to see how the show is going. So I just knew all the elements there were going to amount to a disaster, and I think history shows that I was proved right.

    John Moore: So you will be joining David Stone here in Denver on Thursday for your Q&A on Razzle Dazzle, which coincides with the launch of the If/Then national tour. What are your thoughts on If/Then?

    Michael Riedel: David made a lot of money from Wicked, and he has produced that show brilliantly. But the thing I admire about David more is that instead of running around now and just doing corporate-produced shows, or just backing musicals based on famous titles of movies, David believes in the original American musical. He did that brilliantly with Next to Normal, which won the Pulitzer Prize and was a success on Broadway, and he is doing that again with If/Then. And even if If/Then was not as successful on Broadway as, say, Wicked, I would much rather have someone like David Stone out there committed to developing original American musicals than have a bunch of corporate executives who only want to mine the back catalog of movie studios.

    John Moore: After chronicling the past 40 years on Broadway in Razzle Dazzle, what is your assessment of the state of the American theatre today?

    Michael Riedel: Just to give you a brief idea of where the book begins and ends: I begin with a huge scandal that rocked Broadway in the early 1960s. It's all about bribery and corruption, and the selling of tickets to hot shows illegally and pocketing the money from the scalpers market. I wanted to show that Broadway back then was a seedy, backwater, corrupt business. Well today, that seedy, backwater, corrupt business makes about $1.5 billion a year for itself, and then another billion in tourism dollars for New York City. This book shows how a business that was down and out has become one of the most lucrative parts of the entertainment industry. But I try to tell that story through the personalities of the people who did it.

    John Moore: And what is your assessment of those people?

    Michael Riedel: I would say theatre people are egomaniacal, they are narcissistic, they are ambitious, they are petty, they're vindictive and they are backstabbing … but they are passionate about what they do.

    John Moore: Hey, that’s what they say about journalists!

    Michael Riedel: I can tell you this, and you can quote me: I have never made as much money as David Stone.

    John Moore was named one of the 12 most influential theater critics in the U.S by American Theatre Magazine in 2011. He has since taken a groundbreaking position as the Denver Center’s Senior Arts Journalist.

    A Conversation with Michael Riedel
    • 5:30 p.m. Thursday, Oct 15
    • Conservatory Theatre
    • Newman Center for Theatre Education, 13th and Arapahoe streets
    • Free discussion and Q&A about Riedel's debut book, Razzle Dazzle: The Battle for Broadway
    • Moderated by David Stone, producer of Wicked, Next to Normal and Wicked
    • Tickets are free, but RSVP requested: Click here

    Ticket information
    Oct. 13-25
    At the Buell Theatre
    Call 303-893-4100, buy in person at the Denver Center Ticket Office located at the Helen Bonfils Theatre Complex lobby, or BUY ONLINE
    ASL interpreted, Audio described & Open captioned performance: 2 p.m. Oct 25,
    Groups: Call 303-446-4829
    (Please be advised that the DCPA's web site at denvercenter.org is the ONLY authorized online ticket provider for 'If/Then' performances in Denver)

    Our previous NewsCenter coverage of If/Then and Idina Menzel:

    Look for additional coverage of If/Then, including our expanded interviews with Idina Menzel, David Stone, Brian Yorkey, Tom Kitt and other members of the cast and crew, at denvercenter.org/news-center

  • Meet the cast video series: Lesley Shires

    by John Moore | Oct 29, 2014

    In this ongoing series, we briefly introduce you to the actors performing in our plays in a fun way. Episode 71: Meet Lesley Shires of Fayetteville, N.C., an Army brat who plays the lovable aspiring actress Nina in the Theatre Company at the DCPA's new production of Christopher Durang's celebrated comedy, Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike.

    Shires talks about growing up in a military family ("all of the men in my life are military -- Special Forces, Green Berets, Special Ops -- but they are the nicest, sweetest men," she says -- and the nonprofit organization she created after her young niece was diagnosed with cancer. Hats for Zoe (www.HatsForZoe.Com) provides comfy, creative  caps kids who have lost their hair.

    Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike won the 2013 Tony Award for Best Play. It's about adult siblings whose lives are disrupted by a visit from their Hollywood star sister ... and a boy named Spike. It plays through Nov. 16 in the Ricketson Theatre. Call 303-893-4100, or go to www.denvercenter.org. Video by John Moore and David Lenk. Run time: 3 minutes.

    And, hey: Check out our new media outlet covering Colorado theatre at MyDenverCenter.Org


    Lesley Shires plays a sweet, wannabe actress who is happy to be invited to her Pennsylvania neighbor's costume party -- even if it means dressing as one of the seven dwarfs in " Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike."
    Photo by Jennifer L. Koskinen

    Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike
    : Ticket information
    Performances run through Nov. 16
    Ricketson Theatre
    303-893-4100, or go to the Denver Center’s web site at www.DenverCenter.Org

    Previous 2014-15 "Meet the Cast" episodes:

    Charlie Franklin,Lord of the Flies
    Patty Goble,The Unsinkable Molly Brown
    Matthew Gumley, Lord of the Flies
    Paolo Montalban, The Unsinkable Molly Brown
    Linda Mugleston, The Unsinkable Molly Brown
    Donna English, The Unsinkable Molly Brown
    Eddie Lopez, Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike
    Burke Moses, The Unsinkable Molly Brown
    Beth Malone, The Unsinkable Molly Brown
    Ben and Noah Radcliffe, Lord of the Flies
    Gregory Isaac Stone, Lord of the Flies

    Meet the cast episodes from the 2013-14 season:
    Death of a Salesman
    Just Like Us
    Jackie & Me
    The Most Deserving
    A Christmas Carol
    black odyssey
    The Legend of Georgia McBride
    Animal Crackers
      Our previous coverage of Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike:
      Vanya: Opening night photo gallery
      Video: Watch a montage of scenes from the production
      Cold coffee, hot popcorn make for a good stew
      Durang strikes an unexpected peace with an indifferent Broadway
      Vanya ... is the most popular play in America
      Vanya: First rehearsal photos
      Video: Eddie Lopez works out with Fox's morning 'Everyday' team
      Check out our Study Guide
    • The 'Pippin' Profiles: Original cast member Candy Brown's place in The Manson Trio

      by John Moore | Sep 16, 2014

      Pippin_Candy_Brown_Manson_800Candy Brown, left, Ben Vereen and Pamela Sousa made up 'Pippin's' first Manson Trio. Photo courtesy Candy Brown.

      Candy circleDenver actor Candy Brown has five Broadway credits, but her indelible place in theatre lore is linked, alas, to one of the most reviled cult leaders in history.

      Brown was part of the first Manson Trio, a signature Bob Fosse moment in the original Broadway production of Pippin. Brown can be seen in famous photographs stepping alongside Pamela Sousa with top hats and canes wearing white faces and exaggerated smiles just behind their Leading Player, Ben Vereen.

      In the show, the young prince Pippin has leapt fully into the world of war. During a clever vaudevillian battle scene intended to expose the charade of war, the Leading Player and his two dancers perform “The Manson Trio” during the song “Glory.” Pippin sours on the whole combat thing and flees to the countryside.

      “I always see Candy Brown when I think about the original production,” composer Stephen Schwartz said. “Candy was part of that iconic, weird dance. Hers is one of the faces that people associate with their memory of the original Pippin.”

      But people often ask: Why is that “iconic, weird dance” called “The Manson Trio”?

      “It’s because Charles Manson was in the news at that time,” Brown said this week from Denver, where she now works for Denver School of the Arts as a Guest Artist in the theatre department teaching professionalism and body awareness.

      “It was very chilling, because here we are doing this 'vaudeville-style' dance against limbs being thrown out on stage,” Brown added. “The Vietnam War was still going on, and I believe there was a voiceover during that song where they were reading off the number of people who had died in the war. I don't even know who first said that term, but it was something like, 'Oh, that's creepy. Sort of like Charlie Manson.' And from then on, it became known as The Manson Trio.

      “It was similar to what (Choreographer) Bob Fosse did in Cabaret when he had the young Aryan sing “Tomorrow Belongs To Me” while the war was going on. He liked to juxtapose the entertainment side and the dark side of life at the same time.”


      Brown performed in the Pippin company for two years and has remained remarkably close to her family there.

      “Candy Brown is one of my dearest friends,” said John Rubinstein, who played Pippin in the original Broadway company and is now playing the boy's father in the revival that launched last week in Denver.

      “She came to New York a few weeks ago to see me do a performance of Pippin on Broadway, and she and Ben (Vereen) and I all went out together and reminisced and cried and laughed.

      "I so miss her on stage. I watched her do that show for two full years, and she gave 150 percent every single performance. She never, ever gave any less. And given what she had to do in that show -- that is saying a lot. She is amazing, and I revere and adore her."

      Since moving to Denver, Brown has performed for the Denver Center for the Performing Arts, most recently in the Colorado New Play Summit staged reading of Zenith. She was part of the Curious Theatre’s company’s world premiere piece on homelessness called The Denver Project. She choreographed Melissa Faith Hart’s world premiere staging of The Scarlet Letter in Parker, and is now directing the ambitious Lyn Ahrens musical Once on This Island (a calypso retelling of The Little Mermaid) through Oct. 5 at the Aurora Fox. Her cast is led by the rising vocalist known as SuCh. Or, as Brown calls her, “The Amazing SuCh.”

      “I’ve got the best voices in town,” Brown said. “These are some singing mama-jamas.”

      Here are more excerpts from our expansive conversation with Candy Brown:

      Candy Brown in the 2014 Colorado New Play Summit reading of 'Zenith,' about a mother who intentionally drives her children down the wrong side of a highway. Photo by John Moore.

      John Moore: Can you take us back to a time when a young Candy Brown stepped into the Pippin auditions in 1972?

      Candy Brown: It's funny. I had just worked with Bob Fosse on a TV concert film called Liza with a Z. I was on the road with Applause when I got the call from his assistant saying that Bob would like to have me audition for this new show he was going to do called Pippin. I had never done a show from the ground up. I had always been a replacement. And so I just thought, 'Oh, so that's how it works. The choreographer calls you up and tells you what you are doing next.' I didn't know for three months after Pippin was open that I was the only one from the TV special that he had called.

      John Moore: Touch you!

      Candy Brown: I seriously had no clue. I knew I was not a strong singer, so I just went in and did my thing. 

      John Moore: I have enjoyed talking to people who were there in 1972 about 'the real Bob Fosse.' So … who was ‘the real Bob Fosse’?

      Candy Brown: Wow. Now that's a two-day conversation. Bob was very quiet-spoken. He loved his profession. What a lot of people didn't know is that he loved actors. Jill Clayburgh (the original Catherine in Pippin) was not a singer/dancer. John Rubinstein (the original Pippin) was not known as a singer/dancer. Even Irene Ryan (Berthe) was not known as a singer/dancer. She had done some vaudeville in her youth, but she was an actor. Bob even studied Sandy Meisner's acting technique so he could better communicate with actors. He always knew that he wanted to direct, and from some of the films he did, you can see how passionate he was about working with actors. He was the first choreographer I ever worked with who didn't just say, "… a 5-6-7-8." He told you where you were, and why you were doing what you were doing. I remember distinctively that opening number. We came through the curtain to sing Magic to Do, and then we started talking to the audience. He wanted us very specifically to do that sideways walking. He wanted us to talk to them; ask them questions -- but always act like you have a secret. I remember I was very uncomfortable in those very skimpy costumes, and I was scared to have my dad come see the show. (Laughing.)


      John Moore: People talk about his legendary temper, but you strike me as the kind of woman who would not have stuck around and taken it.

      Candy Brown: Everybody had a different relationship with him. I did see him be very cruel to some people. He always seemed to have one whipping boy in the cast. He did come on to a lot of women. When he first started coming on to me, I was so naive, I didn't even know that's what was happening. I thought he was just being very nice to me. He asked me if I lived alone. And then another time, we were at a party and he asked me to stay. And I was like, 'No, I've got to go home and feed my dogs.' It took me a minute to realize that was a come-on. But c’mon: I'm 19 years old and had just come from Minnesota. He's a 45-year-old balding white guy. It never occurred to me that there would be anything between us. I was young and I didn't expect it, so I just didn't see it coming.

      John Moore: What does it mean to you to be a part of that whole Pippin/Manson Trio history?
      Candy Brown: How lucky can one person be? Seriously. I had a lot of friends who did flop after flop after flop. They did 10 times as many Broadway shows as me, but none that had the success of just the few that I did. I was in the right place at the right time. I had nothing to do with it.

      John Moore: I think you had a little bit to do with it.

      Candy Brown: I will say I came in with the right attitude. I had a strong work ethic, and I had versatility. Bob loved people who had ballet training. But he also had a specific style. He gave you a lot of opportunity to see if you could come up with the exact style that he wanted done. That's where a lot of people just couldn't quite do it. Everybody thinks it's where you put your hands, and where you put your knees, and where you put your toes. That has a lot to do with it, but it's more where it's coming from on the inside.

      John Moore: Whenever I talk to you about Pippin, you’re always saying how you just had lunch with John Rubinstein, or just saw Stephen Schwartz or Ben Vereen in New York. I think Pippin must have been like a high-school theatre experience for you, because 40 years later, no one stays in touch like you all do.

      Candy Brown: But that's because most of us did that show for two years. So we became a family. For example, when we did Chicago, even though I am still close to a few of those actors, that was a tougher time for all of us, because Bob was coming out of his heart attack, and he wasn't the same person he had been before. I didn't really how many medications he was still on. So we all kind of banded together -- but that was a different kind of holding on to each other. Now, Pippin? We all just had such a great time. We were all so young, and we meant a lot to each other. We supported each other. We took care of each other. I am grateful that I am still in touch with these people. I also still talk to Roger O. Hirson, the writer of the book.  He is in his mid-80s now. I adore him and also speak with him often.

      John Moore: Now tell me about how you know Lucie Arnaz. Because that can't have anything to do with Pippin.

      Candy Brown: Lucie was best friends with my New York roommate. They had done Sea Saw together and a couple of other shows. So I became a friend by association.  


      Candy Brown with fellow original Broadway Pippin cast member John Rubinstein at the launch of the new national touring production in Denver on Sept. 10, 2014. Photo by Emily Lozow.

      John Moore: So what did you think when you heard that the new Pippin revival was going to launch its tour in Denver?

      Candy Brown: Oh my God, I couldn't be more excited. I said, 'No wonder I moved here.'

      John Moore: It does start to sound like this is all happening to some sort of preordained plan.

      Candy Brown: Yeah, isn't that crazy? But my life has always been like that. I got a fortune cookie a few months back and it said, 'You have spirit guides.' And you know what? I always have.

      John Moore: I am a former high-school theatre teacher myself, so this is a big, open-ended question, but: At this point in your life, why is teaching at Denver School of the Arts what you want to be doing?

      Candy Brown: Because since I was 5 years old, I wanted to be an elementary school teacher. That's what I went to college for originally. But life just took a different turn. And now, here I am, with the opportunity to teach. When my sister started kindergarten, she was already reading at a third-grade level, and that’s because I was in the third grade. I would come home and teach her. That's why she got to skip a grade. That's why she got a scholarship to Harvard. I would tell her, 'I made you!' (laughing).

      John Moore: So what happened?

      Candy Brown: Well, I started dancing when I was 2. But I had to stop when I was about 11. My father was in the Air Force, and we moved around. We got to Okinawa Island when I was in the sixth grade, and there wasn't anybody there who was dancing at the level I was. I had had a magnificent dance teacher in Queens. I would say there wasn't a Broadway show from 1950 to 1980 that she didn't have a student in.

      John Moore: What was her name?

      Candy Brown: Bernice Johnson. She had been a Cotton Club girl. She taught us everything. We had tap, ballet, acrobatics, African, interpretive -- you name it. That's where I learned professionalism. Most of the kids from there went to performing-arts high school, but I had to leave the country. That was always a big heartbreak of mine. But it turned out OK. 


      John Moore: How did you get back into it?

      Candy Brown: When I was in High school (in Minnesota), I took a dance class as a P.E. requirement and went, 'Wow. I forgot how much I love this.’ And that was it. 

      John Moore: How did you originally come to Colorado?

      Candy Brown: The first time I came was with the touring company of Applause. That was right before I started Pippin in 1972. I came back in the '80s for South Pacific and House of Flowers, and I just always liked it here. It's always had a nice vibe. I never really stayed more than a few weeks at a time, though, and I knew I couldn't make a living here as an actor, so I never thought about moving here. And then L.A. got to be just too much for me. It got too old and too tired. I wanted to have an easier life and live at a slower pace. My son was just starting at UCLA, and I thought, 'Denver is still close enough that I can get back.' I couldn't afford to go back east, and I can't do all that rain in the Pacific northwest. So I thought, 'Well, let me try Denver. It doesn't mean I am going to stay here for the rest of my life, but let's see what happens.' So I just showed up. And I had no plan. I didn't know what I was going to do. I figured if push came to shove, I could work at King Soopers or Frontier Airlines or whatever. That was in January of 2008.

      John Moore: What was it like for you to see this new incarnation of Pippin in Denver?

      Candy Brown: I liked it in Denver much better than when I saw it in New York, frankly. But I think that was purely because of the shock factor. When I saw it in New York, it was too much to absorb for someone who was there originally. You know, it's hard to divorce yourself from something you were so close to. But when you can finally put that distance between you and it, then it's all good. And now that I have seen it again, I can go, 'Oh, OK. I get it. Yeah, that's great.' The thing is: This is a different century. What excesses we had in the '70s look so small compared to the excesses we have available to us now. So I love the whole circus aspect, and that everything is done to excess. The storyline is still very clear. This is an everyman's journey; the story of a boy who is trying to make a mark in this society. That’s Pippin.

      John Moore: What was it like when you talked to Ben Vereen about the new show?

      Candy Brown: He just said, 'This is a show for the 21st century.'

      Candy Brown / At a glance
      Born in Northern California to an Air Force father
      Attended Kindergarten through Grade 5 at P.S. 123 in Queens
      Attended grades 6-7-8 on Okinawa Island (Japan)
      Attended grades 9-12 in Duluth, Minn.
      One year of college in St. Paul before moving to New York City

      ​Broadway credits:
      Hello Dolly
      (she played a replacement Horse!)
      Chicago (June)
      Two Shirley MacLaine special engagements (Dancer)

      Film highlights:
      Ali (Mrs. Clay)
      Zebrahead (Marlene)
      Lost in America (Co-Star)

      TV highlights:
      E.R., Six Feet Under, Ellen, Chicago Hope, Nash Bridges, NYPD Blue

      Once on this Island
      Directed by Candy Brown
      Through Oct. 5
      Aurora Fox, 9990 E. Colfax Ave.
      303-739-1970 or www.aurorafoxartscenter.org

      'The Pippin Profiles' interview series:  

        : Ticket information

        Sep 6-20, 2014 • Buell Theatre
        Accessible Performances • Sep 20, 2pm
        Tickets: 303.893.4100 • Toll-free: 800.641.1222 • TTY: 303.893.9582
        Groups (10+) • 303.446.4829
        Online • www.DenverCenter.Org

        Our previous Pippin coverage on MyDenverCenter.Org:

        Photos, video: Opening-night festivities in Denver
        Video: 5 questions for Composer Stephen Schwartz

        9News anchor Cheryl Preheim has a walk-on cameo on Sept. 16
        Video: Audience testimonials reacting to seeing the show
        Video series: The 'Pippin' Personalities: Five questions with creatives
        'Pippin' meets Denver: Media Day photos
        Broadway's Matthew James Thomas to play Pippin in Denver
        Hello, Denver! 'Pippin' cast and crew arrive

        Photos: Pippin loading in Denver, rehearsing in New York

        My three Pippins gather at Sardi's to honor John Rubinstein
        Photos: Exclusive look at first 'Pippin' rehearsal
        Lucie Arnaz joins Denver-bound ‘Pippin’ as Berthe

        From Pippin to Pappa: Denver tour launch will feature John Rubinstein
        2014-15 season: ‘Pippin,’ ‘Kinky Boots’ are Denver-bound!

      • The 'Pippin' Profiles: Sabrina Harper on the joy of being conniving, clever and sexy

        by John Moore | Sep 08, 2014

        Pippin_Sabrina_Harper_1But Sabrina Harper seems like such a nice person.

        Yet there she is playing nasty Fastrada in the national touring production of Pippin the Musical. She’s the Queen, the conniving and manipulative wife to King Charlemagne. In other words: Pretty much the only person under the Big Top who wants to see poor Prince Pippin perish.

        “She is quite the clever one,” Harper says with a laugh. “She is the one where it all begins.” 

        From the musical's opening song, Magic to Do, “Fastrada is catapulting Pippin on his journey,” said Harper. “It’s a wonderful role because I get to be manipulative, conniving clever and sexy. I can’t see her as the evil stepmother. She just has a little bit of a … darker side.

        “But I am a very nice person,” I swear.

        To be fair, Harper doesn’t actually play Fastrada. She plays one member of a troupe of circus performers who tell the audience the story of Pippin -- meaning she's an actor who plays an actor who plays Fastrada. 

        Harper, born in Laguna Beach, Calif., is a triple threat: Classical ballet dancer, soprano and actor. And thanks to Pippin, you can add knife-juggler. “I have enjoyed picking up some new circus skills here and there,” she said. “I'm always looking to fill up my bag of goodies."


        Harper, granddaughter of noted California architect Tom Harper, trained with the Stuttgart Ballet in Germany. She performed with the Vienna Volksoper before being cast as Meg in Andrew Lloyd Webber’s The Phantom of the Opera at the Neue Flora Theater in Hamburg, followed by other musicals in Berlin, Austria and Switzerland. She played Peggy Sawyer in the first German production of the new 42nd Street in Stuttgart, and Ulla in the first German production of Mel Brooks’ The Producers. She also took on foxy Roxie Hart in the Swiss Broadway production of Chicago (like Pippin, originally choreographed by Bob Fosse). And she played Cassie in the Austrian version of A Chorus Line. Harper made her Broadway debut last year covering six roles in the Tony Award-winning revival of Pippin, and was cast as the first Fastrada in the national touring production that launched in Denver on Friday (Sept. 6) and plays through Sept. 20.

        Here are excerpts from our exclusive conversation with Sabrina Harper:
        (Note: Pippin production photos by Terry Shapiro) 

        Pippin_Sabrina_Harper_2John Moore: So where are you at in the process?

        Sabrina Harper: We're on a good track and heading in the right direction. It’s really exciting. We're training daily and I just feel really, fully involved right now. Full speed ahead.

        John Moore: I know you are a professional dancer, but I imagine this show has you in the best shape of your life.

        Sabrina Harper: That is true. It is very physically demanding for the whole team, especially when you consider the dancing and the aerial work and the acrobatics all together. We are all physically fit, but you still have to constantly continue to work. Like with any sport, you have to continue to push yourself to try new things, because when you are just doing the same thing over and over, it becomes a repetition, and your muscles just get used to it. So we continue to try new things and to advance ourselves.

        John Moore: So how do you go from dancing in a musical like A Chorus Line to something like this that's more high-flying? 

        Sabrina Harper: I would compare the role I play in Pippin to the Cassie dance in A Chorus Line. I have my one spectacular dance, and it has some magical illusion tricks to it. That’s full-force, beautiful choreography by Chet Walker in the style of (the late ) Bob Fosse. I also understudy the Leading Player and also the role of Berthe, so I am right there training on the trapeze, either alone or with a partner. It’s really quite exciting. In my spare time, I have taken to learning how to do some aerials, too -- but that's just for my own fancy.

        John Moore: I was talking with Lucie Arnaz (Berthe) about how you are all literally flying without a net. And I’ve heard people say, ‘Well, maybe there’s not a net, but surely something is in place to protect these people from falling. They aren’t really doing death-defying acts on the stage every night.’ But they really are, aren't they?

        Sabrina Harper: They really are performing death-defying acts on that stage every night. Pippin is the extraordinary character who is searching for spectacular moments in his life. And we are a company of extraordinary performers. I can promise you: We do not have a net. We do not have any security hooks on us.

        John Moore: Then how do you keep it safe?

        Sabrina Harper: If you are aware of your surroundings, you will be safe. We have an amazing team working with us, and everyone is trained to just be very, very aware. You can see them all around, especially when Lucie is doing her trapeze act. They all are there, and they are just like cats watching her. If at any moment something were to happen, they are trained to jump up and be there and protect her. These are highly skilled circus performers. Some of them have worked for Cirque du Soleil, and some come fresh out of the circus school in Montreal. When we first started rehearsals, we would do improv exercises designed for us to become aware of one another and our surroundings. We have been growing as a family and becoming a troupe. We've also been taught juggling with knives, and we have fire, and there are a lot of other dangerous elements. So you have to be focused. And if you are, then nothing bad will happen. Knock on wood: Nothing has happened.

        John Moore: Still, I have to wonder: How does the union ever let this happen?

        Sabrina Harper: Oh, I hear you. When I was working in Europe, I did a show where all I had to do was come down on a trapeze from the top of the proscenium. But even just from there, I had to have a harness. They would never believe what we get away with on Pippin. But we are so well-trained. Gypsy Snider, our circus choreographer, has been a wonderful partner on our team. She has been helping to get us ready. If we're ever not ready, then the tricks will not be done. Period.


        John Moore: So you’ve done some hard-core Fosse in your time. What’s the difference between doing actual hard-core Fosse -- and dancing ‘in the style of Fosse’?  

        Sabrina Harper: I have to say Bob Fosse was an amazing dancer. But if the general public knows ‘the Fosse style,’ they think of jazz hands; or the turned-in, pigeon-toed feet; or certain inverted hip movements. But he had so many other movements and choreographic elements. Long lines. Beautiful legs. Just very sexy; very sensual. You can watch YouTube videos of him dancing, and he will just turn and jump, and he just blows you away with his ability as a dancer. Now we have Chet Walker. And because Chet worked with Fosse, I want to say it’s really not that different. I love that there are numbers in the show and we are doing exactly the same choreography Bob Fosse did in the original in 1972. But I also love that Chet was able to incorporate his own choreography and add essential elements, too. He has created beautiful lines and beautiful movements that are fun and enjoyable to execute. The movements tell their own stories. They show strength, or they show passion. It’s storytelling with your body.

        John Moore: Chances are, most of the people who see Pippin in Denver have not had the opportunity to see this new incarnation in New York. If they have seen it, most likely they will have seen school or community theatre productions. They really have no idea what they are in for, do they?

        Pippin_Sabrina_Harper_4Sabrina Harper: They are in for a whole new theatre experience. This production is really extraordinary in all categories. We are the first to really to morph circus with dance, music and theatre, and pack it all into one amazing story. And it's just so honest and heartwarming. I hope that we will be able to touch all of you in Denver the way we have been able to touch the audiences who have come to see us in New York. It’s a just a wonderful, colorful theatre experience for all ages. I think you are going to enjoy it, and I think you are going to leave the theatre humming a song, and I think you are going to go home and think about your life. Pippin asks you to think about your journey: What is important to you in life? Finding that one moment … or finding true and lasting love? I think we are all faced with finding our own corner of the sky every day that we go through life. And that is what we are going to bring to Denver.

        John Moore: So … this is happening.

        Sabrina Harper: It is, and I am super excited. I have never been to Denver before, and I'm really looking forward to this experience. I have some friends in the Denver community from high school, so I'm looking forward to seeing them all.

        John Moore was named one of the 12 most influential theater critics in the U.S by American Theatre Magazine in 2011. He has since taken a groundbreaking position as the Denver Center’s Senior Arts Journalist.

        'The Pippin Profiles' interview series:

        : Ticket information

        Sep 6-20, 2014 • Buell Theatre
        Accessible Performances • Sep 20, 2pm
        Tickets: 303.893.4100 • Toll-free: 800.641.1222 • TTY: 303.893.9582
        Groups (10+) • 303.446.4829
        Online • www.DenverCenter.Org

        Our previous Pippin coverage on MyDenverCenter.Org:

        Video series: The 'Pippin' Personalities: Five questions with creatives
        'Pippin' meets Denver: Media Day photos

        Broadway's Matthew James Thomas to play Pippin in Denver
        Hello, Denver! 'Pippin' cast and crew arrive

        Photos: Pippin loading in Denver, rehearsing in New York

        My three Pippins gather at Sardi's to honor John Rubinstein
        Photos: Exclusive look at first 'Pippin' rehearsal
        Lucie Arnaz joins Denver-bound ‘Pippin’ as Berthe

        From Pippin to Pappa: Denver tour launch will feature John Rubinstein
        2014-15 season: ‘Pippin,’ ‘Kinky Boots’ are Denver-bound!

      • The 'Pippin' Profiles: Sasha Allen finds her voice in the raw art of live theatre

        by John Moore | Sep 02, 2014

        Pippin_Sasha_Allen_400It’s not like the prospect of performing in front of nearly 3,000 people in Denver to launch the national touring production of Pippin doesn’t make Sasha Allen a little nervous. But intimidated? Hardly.

        “Try sitting there calmly when they are you counting you down from 5, 4, 3… and that, 'Oh, by the way, 30 million people are watching,' ” said Allen. “That’s scary.”

        The Harlem-born Allen has sung backing vocals for Christina Aguilera, Alicia Keys, John Legend and Usher. She rose to fame in her own right last year as a finalist on the fourth season of NBC’s singing competition, The Voice. (Photo right by Matthew Murphy.)

        The pressure to perform on live TV, she said, “is out of control.” By comparison, taking to the stage as the Leading Player in Pippin feels positively intimate. Still, she gets something out of performing on a theatre stage that TV just can’t match.

        “There is a serious transfer of energy when you are performing in front of live people,” said Allen, who in Pippin is taking on the iconic (and now feminized) role of the Leading Player, head of a troupe of circus performers who relate the story of a young prince’s search for meaning in his life.

        “On TV, when your eyelash falls off, they yell, ‘Stop.’ Someone comes on and fixes your eyelash, and you do it again. There is something organic about being on stage and everybody with you is there to take care of each other. Because nobody is going to come running on and fix your lash if it falls off. We can't yell, ‘Cut!’ It just doesn't work like that.

        “We are all sweating. Your shoes are stabbing you in your feet. Live theatre is a raw art, and I think you have to completely love it to want to do it.” 

        Allen loves it – stabby shoes and all. She made her Broadway debut in 2010 when Director Diane Paulus cast her to join another signature revival American revival, Hair, as Dionne.

        What will make Allen a bit nervous is when you point out that she’s following in the footsteps of the great Ben Vereen.

        I saw his performance on tape, and I was I was like, 'Oh my God, he is just so electric,' " she said. It is intimidating. But I am thankful to be a female playing that role. It's just so different. It has to be.”


        What follows are excerpts from our extensive conversation with Pippin’s leading Player:

        John Moore: How is rehearsal going today?

        Sasha Allen: I have been sweating like a crazy person all day long. I smell like the gym. But it is going really, really good. For a second there, I thought I was going to jump off the cliff, because it’s a lot of hard work. But then it finally starts to click, and your body finally does what it is supposed to do.

        John Moore: It seems like all of you just jumped off the cliff together on this one.

        Sasha Allen: When you take on a project like this, you just know it’s going to be good in the end. That’s why you continue to do the work, but … man, it's hard.

        John Moore: Well, congratulations for the opportunity.

        Sasha Allen: Thank you. I know this is a life-changing moment. I just know that if I continue on my path, then I will be labeled as something better than I was yesterday.

        John Moore: It sounds as if you are on a Pippin-esque journey of your own.

        Sasha Allen: I definitely am. I called my mom after I crashed and burned during one rehearsal. I was like, 'Well, that didn't go the way I wanted it to go. And she was like, 'Well, now you know where you stand. Now, work it out. Moving on ... ' 

        John Moore: Gotta love moms.

        Sasha Allen: Absolutely. I was like, 'Right. Exactly. Now -- get back to rehearsal.'
        John Moore: When was the first time you ever saw Pippin?

        Sasha Allen: I had seen Ben Vereen on tape. Just as a fan. I was like, 'Oh my God, he is so amazing. Let's rewind and watch that again.' But when I knew I was going to be auditioning (to join the Broadway cast), I went to see it (with Patina Miller playing the role of the Leading Player). It’s a strange feeling. You’re like, 'I can conquer this' … but it becomes intimidating at the same time. I was thinking, 'Damn. She never leaves the stage. She never takes a break.' I do know that when that show was over, I stood on my feet … and I meant it.  There was a real feeling of, 'Get your butt up and clap for this production, because they just rocked the house.’

        John Moore: So what is your take on the role of the Leading Player now?

        Sasha Allen: At first, I didn't like her so much. I really didn't. I was thinking, 'Well, then, so how do I get into a character that I don't like?' That's why (Director Diane Paulus) is so great. When she made us do character study, it was so necessary, because hating my character doesn't work for me playing her. I had to realize that everybody has a story. Everybody has something that has happened to them. I really do believe that everyone is born in innocence. I have children, so I know what innocence really looks like. So I thought, something must have happened to her. That’s why she is this strict, crazy, controlling, person. If you can understand where people come from, then you don't take it personally. As an actor, you can get joy out of a person's struggle. It's so real. You will find controlling people everywhere in the world, and I just wonder why. Me creating a pre-story for this character really helped me to understand where she's coming from.

        John Moore: I have talked to several people who have made the connection that (Composer) Stephen Schwartz is pretty much Pippin, and the Leading Player is really (original Director) Bob Fosse. Have you tried to tap into the Fosse context in any way?

        Sasha Allen: I don’t think of them as being the actual people. I know part of their inspiration for the Leading Player came from Charles Manson, and a lot of stuff in the script refers back to that. So I really watched Charles Manson. I think he's scary, but you know what? I didn't hate him. He made a lot of sense in a weird, crazy kind of way. I would never want to be in his presence because he would probably do a mind trip on me, but ... no, I never thought about Fosse being my character.


        John Moore: Love her or not, your character is such a necessary part of Pippin's journey. It might be tough love, but it seems to me that you're also his teacher.

        Sasha Allen: There are different moments throughout the show where I feel like his teacher. Then I feel like his mother. Then his friend. And then, in the end … I feel like his enemy. When Pippin doesn't do what I want him to do, she has a full-on meltdown. She will do whatever it takes to get him to feel what she is feeling. 'Oh, so you don't feel with me now? I am going to make you feel it this way.' A lot of people can relate to Pippin because we've all felt naive and innocent -- and now, someone is trying to take control of your life. But my character is also very human. Her antics are on the more dramatic side, but we can all relate to wanting to be in control of our lives.

        John Moore: You mentioned your appreciation for Ben Vereen.

        Sasha Allen: Oh, I love him.

        John Moore: In talking with Stephen about turning the Leading Player into a part for a female actor, he said no male actor would ever be able to live up to Ben Vereen's performance … or at least people's picture in their minds of Ben Vereen's performance. And Stephen didn't want to put that responsibility on any man. So they thought making the Leading Player a woman would be an opportunity to present the story in an entirely different way. But still, you are following in Ben Vereen’s footsteps. How does it feel to step into that lineage?

        Sasha Allen: I will say it is intimidating. But, as a woman, I am able to do make different vocal and creative choices. Stephen and Diane have really allowed me to do my own thing, and allow my signature to be put on it. And I am not sure if I could have done that if I were a male. And even if I weren’t a differently styled singer, I think it would feel disrespectful to change this great thing that has been made. As a female, I do feel lucky to be able to say, ‘Well, yes, Ben did that. And we all love him for that. But now ... look at me. I have a sexy outfit on!’

        John Moore: Have you ever met Ben Vereen?

        Sasha Allen: I have. I was doing Hair, and he did Hair as well. Afterward, he invited some of the cast to his hotel room. We had a whole in-depth conversation about Hair, and his experience, and the times, and te racism. We got so deep. He was really so special. But I think you have to be to be that much of a genius. He is a phenomenal "thing." I mean, it doesn't even feel human.

        John Moore: So I want to ask you about working with all of these awesome women. When we look back on the original Pippin, it's Stephen Schwartz and it's Bob Fosse and it's Roger Hirson and it's Ben Vereen. It’s such a “guy's show” in many ways. And now you have Diane bringing it back to life on Broadway, and she has brought in Gypsy Snider for the circus elements. They are both mothers. You are a mother. Pippin is still a guy’s story, but there is a whole lot of girl power going on in this new production.

        Sasha Allen: Oh, I feel it. Definitely. And I can tell you, I don't know if a man yelling at me the way Diane yells at me would work. Do you know what I mean? There is just a different energy with women. When Diane is getting revved up, she is literally transferring her energy to me. She is not holding back at all. When she tells me to do something,  you just do it. And if she pisses me off, that just makes it even better. It is a literal transfer of women power. She is truly inspiring.

        John Moore: That applies to new ending, too, doesn't it? We're not telling people exactly how it has changed. But there is something that was troubling, I think, about the way the original Pippin ended. After his period of adventure, there was this unintentional sense that Pippin was somehow settling for a family life. As if that's a bad thing. But it's an interesting thing when you put strong women in charge of the storytelling. Because I think they have brought some clarity to in terms of what we should consider to be extraordinary.

        Sasha Allen: I do not think that a young man choosing to be a husband and a father should ever be considered settling.  We all have choices to make, and having a family is not a bad choice. It's just not. I have one. I think anybody can do whatever they want with their lives and make it exceptional. If you are going to be a father, then be an exceptional father. I think we all can be extraordinary, however we choose to be.


        John Moore: So … do you mind if we talk about The Voice?

        Sasha Allen: Oh yeah, yeah ... come on!

        John Moore: OK, so I have been asked to ask: When you had to choose between Shakira and Usher to be your mentor, you picked Shakira. But you were once a backing vocalist for Usher. How did you come to that decision?

        Sasha Allen: It was excruciating. It looks pretty easy when you are watching the show on TV. But when you are up there, you are sweating bullets. I was shaking inside. They put this weird music on, and the lights changed. It really is intimidating. Usher is an amazing singer. He's an amazing performer. But he is a technical dancer. You know, here we are talking about the strong women in Pippin: I felt like what I needed most was a strong woman to tell me what I needed to do as a woman to get this done. And that went down to everything from, ‘How do I wear my hair?’ to, ‘How do I wear my make-up?’ to, ‘What shade of lipstick?’ to, ‘What outfit should I wear?’ I know that sounds really off-topic, but these things are crucial in how people look at you. I was just talking to one of our costume designers, and she said, 'What I love is looking at how people dress. There is always a whole story behind it.' Well, there is a whole story behind what I wore on The Voice.

        John Moore: Did you learn any dance moves from Shakira?

        Sasha Allen: You know, we really didn’t really work on dance moves. I mean, I will never be able to dance like her. She's born and bred to dance. It was really the small details that I got from her. Shakira would tell me, 'Smile here, and then seduce the camera there.' She gave me a valuable lesson on brightening up a room, or seducing a room. If I am going to crawl, then it better be a good crawl. If you are going to do it, then make it sexual, or else don't even do it. Those are women tricks.

        John Moore: So The Voice wasn't that long ago, and now you are only a couple of days away from opening the tour of Pippin. Can you put your life into any kind of perspective right now?

        Sasha Allen: It's a blessing. It really is. I didn’t realize how much I was going to learn from The Voice, to tell you the truth. Because you look at the show and you're like, ‘Well, yes, it's corny and it’s cheesy. But I learned so much. I learned a lot about myself. I learned how hard I am willing to work. And I really learned how to practice.

        John Moore was named one of the 12 most influential theater critics in the U.S by American Theatre Magazine in 2011. He has since taken a groundbreaking position as the Denver Center’s Senior Arts Journalist.


        Sasha Allen on her first night in Denver. Photo by John Moore.

        'The Pippin Profiles' interview series:

        : Ticket information

        Sept 6-20, 2014 • Buell Theatre
        Accessible Performances • Sep 20, 2pm
        Tickets: 303.893.4100 • Toll-free: 800.641.1222 • TTY: 303.893.9582
        Groups (10+) • 303.446.4829
        Online • www.DenverCenter.Org

        Our previous Pippin coverage on MyDenverCenter.Org:

        Broadway's Matthew James Thomas to play Pippin in Denver
        Hello, Denver! 'Pippin' cast and crew arrive

        Photos: Pippin loading in Denver, rehearsing in New York

        My three Pippins gather at Sardi's to honor John Rubinstein
        Photos: Exclusive look at first 'Pippin' rehearsal
        Lucie Arnaz joins Denver-bound ‘Pippin’ as Berthe

        From Pippin to Pappa: Denver tour launch will feature John Rubinstein
        2014-15 season: ‘Pippin,’ ‘Kinky Boots’ are Denver-bound!


      • The 'Pippin' Profiles: Diane Paulus on directing without a net

        by John Moore | Aug 22, 2014

        Diane_Paulus_Pippin_400Director Diane Paulus’ mantra as an artist is to always expand the boundaries of theatre ... or why bother?

        “As a director,” she says, “one of my biggest interests is creating a visceral experience for audiences.”

        Audiences will be feeling visceral come Sept. 6, when the national touring production of Paulus’ Tony-winning musical revival Pippin launches in Denver. They will be witnessing death-defying flips, tight-rope walks, knife-juggling and more. And “those acrobatic tricks you see are real, “ she said, “and they are real every night."

        That means be no protective cables. No safety nets.

        "With every performance, those are real, extraordinary achievements happening on that stage. It's live. It's happening there. And the audience witnesses it in the moment. And that makes the production so immediate.”

        It is that kind of theatrical daring that earned Paulus spot on Time Magazine’s annual list of the 100 most influential people in the world. … In the world.

        Paulus is the Artistic Director of the American Repertory Theatre at Harvard University in Boston, where she debuted Pippin on its way to Broadway; and where she just opened a pre-Broadway run of a new Peter Pan musical based on the film Finding Neverland.


        Paulus brought the London theatrical phenomenon Sleep No More to America in 2011 on its way to New York. That’s an immersive version of Macbeth that plays out on multiple floors of a warehouse in the meatpacking district of Manhattan. Paulus calls that kind of thing “adventure theatre.”

        The same can be said of Pippin. Paulus got the green light to mount the first major revival of Pippin in 40 years when she told composer Stephen Schwartz she wanted to set his story of a young man search’s for meaning in the dangerous world of the circus.

        “It wasn’t about layering something on that didn’t need to be there,” Paulus said. “It was about the theme of the story: How far are we willing to go to be extraordinary in our lives? That question is at the heart of Pippin’s journey. That question is also at the heart of every circus performer’s life. And it’s a literal one: How far will I go? Will I jump and land upside down on someone’s hand? Will I leap through a hoop on fire? How far can I push my human body to aspire to be extraordinary?”

        What follows are excerpts from our expansive interview with one of the leading figures in the American theatre.

        John Moore: We’re talking to you as you are just days away from opening the Broadway-bound Finding Neverland at your American Repertory Theatre in Boston.

        Diane Paulus: Yes, we are in the middle of previews right now.

        John Moore: Well, then, I can't imagine how you can be in any kind of a Pippin headspace, so thank you for making time.

        Diane Paulus: It's a little crazy, but I have my Pippin T-shirt on right now, so I am already in Pippin land a little bit. It's all good.

        John Moore: What was your introduction to Pippin?

        Diane Paulus: I saw Pippin as a little girl growing up in New York City. I was 8 years old, and seeing it on Broadway marked me. It made such a huge impression. I remembered those characters. I remembered that world that (Director and Choreographer) Bob Fosse put on stage. I remembered Ben Vereen and all those players. And of course, I grew up on the score. I wore out my album. I played Corner of the Sky on the piano. I also sang With You at my brother's wedding -- not really understanding that, in the show, that's a song about Pippin getting together with a lot of different women. I sing No Time at All with my college friends at our reunions. So I've been living that Pippin score my whole life. I have always wanted to touch this show again.

        John Moore: What appealed to you most about revisiting it?

        Diane Paulus: A lot of people remember the Fosse and they remember the music, but you don't have a lot of people saying to you, 'Oh, what an amazing story.’ But I have always felt there was a very powerful and important story there. To me, Pippin is almost a pageant play, like a trial of the soul in all these different stages of a man’s life that are theatricalized -- going to war, the temptation of the flesh, the ordinary life. Pippin is the son of King Charlemagne, but he could stand in as an everyman. I got very excited about trying to make the meaning of his story viscerally felt.

        John Moore: And what does it mean -- to you?

        Diane Paulus: For me, the theme of Pippin is this: How far do we go to be extraordinary in our lives? Right now, that is such a relevant question -- more than ever. Just how far do we push ourselves? What is glory? What is it to be extraordinary, and what are the choices that we make in our lives? Ultimately, what I love about Pippin is that it's not a moralistic story. It doesn't say, 'Well, here's the right answer.' It really puts the question out to the audience. When we first did Pippin up at A.R.T. (in Boston), we’re in a college town, and there were young college kids coming to see the show who were completely relating to Pippin. They were asking questions like, 'What am I doing with my life?' 'What is my purpose in life?' 'What am I going to be, and who am I, and why am I here on the planet?' And you know what? I am a mom in my 40s, and I am thinking about things like, 'What are the choices I've made, and how do I negotiate a career and a family, and what does it mean to be extraordinary in my life?' Over the course of this production, I have seen entire generations of people affected by it. I saw an elderly man in his 80s weeping at the end of the show, and I just thought, 'Cleary, this show pushes you to think about the choices you are making, or the choices you have made in your life.’


        John Moore: So what was your biggest directorial challenge?

        Diane Paulus: My biggest directorial challenge was determining what the world of this play was going to be.

        John Moore: (Composer) Stephen Schwartz told me you weren't the first to come to him wanting to put Pippin in a circus. But he did say that your concept was the best. How did you came up with your idea, and what was the pitch?

        Diane Paulus: I really got interested in this idea of circus because, to me, the show has to have an identity for the troupe of players. And the circus has such a strong identity. It's a traveling family that pitches their tent from town to town. They transform the lives of the people who dare to enter that tent. And then they pick up and leave, and they go somewhere else. So you don't ever really know a lot about who those circus people are. You don't think about them doing ordinary things like going to the supermarket and cooking. They just sort of come alive for you for as long as they are in that tent. It's a fantasy world. That was the hook for me: What if this group is a circus troupe, and they have come to town, and they have pitched their tent, and the Leading Player is literally standing outside that tent seducing you, the audience, to come inside and ‘join us.’ And if you dare to enter that tent, who knows what you will experience? Who knows how you will be transformed? You might be so transformed that you might even decide that you want to run away with the circus. That's another metaphor for me: How many of us in our lives have wanted to run away with the circus? Either literally, or metaphorically? When in our lives have we decided to take that leap—and when have we decided, "No," because, for any number of reasons, I can't run away with the circus right now. I have to choose other things. That was the metaphor me.

        John Moore: Your goal is always to expand the boundaries of theatre, and that certainly seems to be what the circus achieves in Pippin.

        Diane Paulus: I have been a great admirer of Les 7 doigts de la main (The 7 Fingers of the Hand). So when I met (Circus Creator) Gypsy Snider, I asked if she would ever want to work on a musical. And then we started talking about Pippin, and the theme meant so much to her. That's when I knew this collaboration would work. Because it wasn't about layering something on that didn’t need to be there. It was about the theme of the story: How far are we willing to go to be extraordinary in our lives? That question is at the heart of every acrobat and circus performer. That’s the first thing Gypsy said to me: ‘That is the life of an acrobat.’


        John Moore: And how does that translate into the theatre experience?

        Diane Paulus: I am always interested in embracing theatre for what I think it should be, which is the absolute, live experience that is witnessed by each audience member. It’s not something we can later replay on our telephones or computers. As an audience member, you are seeing it, and what you are seeing can only be experienced right then and there, and it will be different every night.

        John Moore: How did you decide how you would go about replicating the Fosse choreography – and how much?

        Diane Paulus: There is no one like Bob Fosse. I have always worshipped at the altar of Fosse for what he did as an artist, and for his unique vision. I knew if we were going to bring back Pippin, we had to bring back the Fosse. It's just too connected. Chet Walker was part of that original Broadway production of Pippin. He had worked with Fosse for years, and so having Chet on the team was so important to me. When I first met Chet, he said to me, 'Bob Fosse would never want to re-create something. He never wanted to repeat himself. He and Stephen Schwartz also told me that Fosse loved Fellini. And when you look at it, this fascination with Fellini and clowns is all over even the original choreography. It's almost inside the DNA of the original production. But we had an opportunity with our production to take it further.

        John Moore: When you approached Gypsy, she had never seen Pippin before. She said the first thing that became obvious to her was that the Leading Player was Bob Fosse, and Pippin was Stephen Schwartz. When I mentioned that to Stephen, he just kind of paused and said, ‘That's exactly right.’ What do you think of the comparison?

        Diane Paulus: I am such a huge fan of both of those artists. It was so interesting to work with Stephen because here it was, 40 years later, and he was no longer the young college kid who wrote the show. He's now a mature artist looking back on his life. And I think now he had an appreciation for what Fosse saw in it when they made this in the '70s. So I think Stephen really helped me understand what the brew was back in the '70s between he and Fosse. Looking at it now for this revival as a mature artist, I think Stephen was able to identify more with Fosse. It was so edifying and inspiring for me to really understand the original production and everything that made that birth happen. A lot of people think of Pippin from having done it at their camp, or at their community theatre, or at their college. And so, for a lot of people, they know it as The Kumbaya Pippin. And this is not The Kumbaya Pippin. This story is deep, and it is profound, and it has really intense meaning. I think that was there in the original collaboration between Stephen and Bob Fosse. I remember that heat from when I was a kid, and I wanted to re-create that heat and take it even further.

        John Moore: Obviously a big change with this production is that a woman is playing the Leading Player. Stephen felt no male actor could possibly follow in Ben Vereen’s footsteps.

        Diane Paulus: Well, you know, in the script, it just says, "Leading Player." It doesn't say anything about race or gender. There is no other information, aside what is in the text. So I sent Stephen a note saying, ‘Tell me about this Leading Player. What do I have to know?' Just give me some details.' And he said back, 'The Leading Player can be anyone. Male. Female African-American, white, whatever demographic or ethnicity you want.' The only thing he said is that the Leading Player has to feel different from Pippin. The Leading Player has to represent everything Pippin has not experienced in life. So, with that … I agree with Stephen. The specter of Ben Vereen is huge, and for me that meant we had to have someone who could sing as well as Ben, who could dance as well as Ben, and who could act as well as Ben. So that was really the gauntlet that was thrown down. We had to find someone who is a true triple-threat. I knew Ben could do everything, and I knew we had to find someone who could deliver in all those departments. And, in our case -- maybe also someone who is willing to get on a trapeze and be a little fearless with some of the circus stuff.

        John Moore: How hard was that to find all in one performer?

        Diane Paulus: We auditioned everyone. We auditioned men and women. Every possible ethnicity came through our door. We had no agenda about who we were going to cast. However, I have to confess that Patina Miller was secretly in my brain, because I had worked with her on Hair. And then she helped create this stamp on this role of a powerful woman and leader. She proved that a woman could tell this story in such an interesting way for a modern, 21st-century audience. So now, the female Leading Player is integral. We’re looking forward to what Sasha Allen does with the role now.


        John Moore: Speaking of Hair, I have to ask you about your Jeannie, who was played by Colorado’s sweetheart, Annaleigh Ashford.

        Diane Paulus: Oh my gosh. She is such a joy, and, as everyone knows, so hysterically funny. There is not one word that can come out of that women's mouth that doesn't make you laugh. I loved working with her on Hair. She was so quirky and funny and such a pro. And she is so committed as an artist. I felt really lucky to have had that experience with her.

        John Moore: It looks like Finding Neverland is going to be the next big thing. Can you give us a sneak peek into what kind of a theatrical experience we're in for?

        Diane Paulus: What I love about the show is that it's the story of the power of the imagination through the life of J.M. Barrie. Speaking of expanding the boundaries, he took a leap of faith and created something that everyone felt was crazy back in 1904. I mean, this was a story with boys who could fly and fairies and mermaids and crocodiles. Everybody thought he was nuts. He created Peter Pan -- something we all now think of as a brand of peanut butter. And if people have seen it, they say, ‘Oh, yeah, I've seen it a thousand times, and it’s the most mainstream, accessible musical you could point to.’ But it wasn't in its creation. 

        John Moore: This must be fun for you, having daughters.

        Diane Paulus. Yes. Because at the heart of it, this is about is seeing the world through the eyes of a child. I am making Finding Neverland for my two daughters. What does it means to have spirit of a child in your life?  What kind of worlds can we see through their eyes? I love the show. The heart of it is very strong.

        John Moore: Before we go, I am curious what you think about the new ending for Pippin. Without giving anything away, why do you think this new ending is the right ending?

        Diane Paulus: Our ending now makes perfect sense. This show is about all the trials we have to go through in our lives, and everyone goes through them. And so when Pippin ends, you have this sense that it is all going to begin again. I tell you, when we were making this production, there were kids all over the place, because so many of us have children, and I let everybody watch rehearsal. It was like a circus of children. Every time we finished rehearsal, all of the kids would rush on to the stage and try to climb the poles and try to do all the acrobatic tricks. It was sort of primal. I looked at them one day and I thought, ‘That's the story!’ Even though we know we are going to fall, a kid will always want to climb a tree. A kid will always want to try to climb a pole. It’s a part of human nature, and that to me is what we get in this new ending.

        John Moore: And also looking at it from Pippin’s perspective. He has to make a decision. And I think Stephen was always a little uncomfortable that people might interpret the original ending of a man choosing to be a responsible husband and father as somehow settling. In this day and age, we really should be celebrating those men who choose fatherhood and family, should we not?

        Diane Paulus: Every individual has to face certain decisions at some point in their lives. And you make your choice for a reason. And I think each choice is extraordinary, if you really get in touch with yourself. To me, that's the story. Stop doing what people tell you to do. Identify what's in your heart. That might mean running away with the circus. That might mean choosing a family, and to love someone, which means you can't run away with the circus right now. It's all about the choice. It’s all about the risk of the choice. It's not about which choice you actually make. Can you hear your heart and follow your heart and the truth inside yourself? That is the journey of Pippin. That’s your journey. And that’s my journey, too.

        John Moore was named one of the 12 most influential theater critics in the U.S by American Theatre Magazine in 2011. He has since taken a groundbreaking position as the Denver Center’s Senior Arts Journalist.

        'The Pippin Profiles':  

        Pippin: Ticket information

        Sept 6-20, 2014 • Buell Theatre
        Accessible Performances • Sep 20, 2pm
        Tickets: 303.893.4100 • Toll-free: 800.641.1222 • TTY: 303.893.9582
        Groups (10+) • 303.446.4829
        Online • www.DenverCenter.Org

        Previous Pippin coverage on MyDenverCenter.Org:

        Photos: Pippin loading in Denver, rehearsing in New York
        My three Pippins gather at Sardi's to honor John Rubinstein

        Photos: Exclusive look at first 'Pippin' rehearsal
        Lucie Arnaz joins Denver-bound ‘Pippin’ as Berthe

        From Pippin to Pappa: Denver tour launch will feature John Rubinstein
        2014-15 season: ‘Pippin,’ ‘Kinky Boots’ are Denver-bound!

      • The 'Pippin' Profiles: How Stephen Schwartz ran off with the circus

        by John Moore | Aug 19, 2014

        Stephen Schwartz likes to joke that somewhere, “Bob Fosse is surely looking up and laughing.”

        He kids about the direction. But not the director. Fosse was Schwartz’s legendary collaborator on the musical Pippin, which in war-torn 1972 brought a surreal collision of violence, innocence and sexuality to the Broadway stage.

        Fosse, known for his provocative choreography and fiery temper, died in 1987. Last year, a significantly reimagined Pippin won the Tony Award for Best Musical Revival, and its new national touring production is launching in Denver on Sept. 6.

        “I think Bob would be thrilled with this,” said Schwartz, the composer who 40 years ago openly questioned the darkness and overindulgence that Fosse brought to Schwartz’s sweet story of a naïve boy searching for meaning in his life.

        “There were specific choices Bob made that I honestly thought were heavy-handed and crude, and not in a good way,” Schwartz said. But now at age 66, Schwartz added, “I joke that I have ironically become the defender of Bob's vision.” 

        Schwartz and book writer Roger O. Hirson have been approached dozens of times over the years by artists wanting to revisit Pippin.

        “Frankly, I think merely reproducing the original -- if that were even possible --  would have felt quite dated,” Schwartz said. “And none of the new approaches made much sense to us.”

        Any revival would bring big challenges. “The Fosse choreography is so iconic, and the performance of Ben Vereen (as the Leading Player) was so indelible, even to people who didn't actually see it,” Schwartz said. “So it really would need a concept that was going to overcome all that without obliterating the show. And that would be quite difficult to come by.”

        Enter Diane Paulus, the groundbreaking director who brought the Vietnam musical Hair back to explosive life on Broadway in 2009. Her new idea? The original mysterious troupe would now be a circus family performing the story of Pippin. Now the young prince’s quest for meaning would be a death-defying one, set against live and often breathtaking acrobatics.

        Schwartz and Hinson were apprehensive at first. “But I think I can speak for Roger when I say we have been totally won over,” Schwartz said. “Frankly, I think Diane is a better director of scenes and actors than Bob Fosse was. And consequently, I think the story is better told.”

        Pippin began as a 17-year-old Schwartz’s spin-off of The Lion in Winter, a play about the foibles of King Henry II in 1183. Over the next seven years, the Pippin project came to reflect Schwartz’s own journey as a young man in his 20s.

        Fosse, then 47, agreed to direct and choreograph Pippin on Broadway if allowed to make the story more dark and sophisticated. Fosse brought in Ben Vereen, fresh off his electric performance in Jesus Christ Superstar, to play the Leading Player, a narrator of sorts who leads Pippin down many dangerous roads.

        Schwartz says it’s “absolutely accurate” to suggest that, essentially, he is Pippin, “particularly in talking about me at age 24,” he said. “I think more and more that the character of Pippin became a great deal like me at that time.”

        But what became intriguingly clear to Circus Creator Gypsy Snyder, who had never seen Pippin before the recent revival, is that Fosse is the Leading Player.

        “When you look at the sexuality and the seduction and the violence and the eroticism of the piece,” Snyder said, “then you are really looking at a retrospective of Fosse's life. And then you have the ‘Corner of the Sky” Pippin, the loving family man. That was absolutely the Stephen Schwartz I got to know through this production. He's just so positive and so hard-working and he keeps an innocent eye. That’s Pippin.”

        Schwartz concurs.

        “Bob’s was the more worldly-wise point of view,” Schwartz said. “And Roger Hirson, who was in his 40s when we opened, may have been the Charlemagne character.”

        Read more about this and more in this exclusive, expansive interview with one of the leading figures in American theatre history. Schwartz, who has contributed to Wicked, Godspell, Children of Eden and many more, is a member of the Theatre Hall of Fame and president of the Dramatists Guild. He has three Academy Awards, four Grammy Awards, four Drama Desk Awards and, shockingly, no Tony Awards.


        John Moore: So where did I find you today?

        Stephen Schwartz: I am getting ready to visit Trumbull, Conn., because a high school there has a drama troupe run by a girl who last year very bravely resisted censorship on their production of Rent. And The Dramatists Guild, of which I am president, has honored her with a courage award. Now her troupe is doing Children of Eden, so it’s kind of come full circle. And so, in appreciation for what she has done, I am taking myself to Trumbull.

        John Moore: It meant a lot to the students attending last month’s Jimmy Awards in New York when you stopped by to speak to them.

        Stephen Schwartz: Well, Music Theatre International, which represents most of my shows, is very active with the Jimmy Awards, and they asked if I would come and talk with them. And pretty much anything MTI asks me to do, I do --  because they have been very good to me over the years.

        John Moore: Well, I  think you have been pretty good to MTI, too.

        Stephen Schwartz: (laughing): Well, thanks. I really enjoyed getting a chance to talk to the kids. They were amazing. It was really cool to spend a little time with them. 

        John Moore What was your message of encouragement to them?

        Stephen Schwartz: I am a big believer in -- and living proof of -- the theory of ‘follow your bliss.’ This is a very difficult and often very mean business. But if this is your dream, and you persevere at it, it is possible for people to make a living, and make a life, in this profession. My advice to them is the same as my advice to my own children: If you pursue what you want to do, you may not wind up where you thought you were going to, exactly, but it will take you somewhere you are more likely to want to be than if you made the ‘safe,’ or perhaps the ‘sane’ choice. If you think, 'I'll wait, and at some point I'll pursue what I actually want do do' ... then I don't think that necessarily works out for the better.

        John Moore: Wait, I didn't think we were talking about Pippin yet. But apparently we are.

        Stephen Schwartz: Well yes. There we are... You know, Pippin, in the end, makes the sane choice.


        John Moore: I am sure you have been told over and over about how your music has changed the course of young peoples' lives. But for my generation, it was Godspell and Pippin doing the life-changing, and now you have this whole new generation of theatre kids all geeked out because, hey: You're the guy who wrote Wicked.

        Stephen Schwartz: It is sort of strange, isn’t it? But obviously it's nice that at my … advanced … age, if you will, that I have come up with something – along with my collaborators -- that has spoken to people of all ages, but particularly to a young generation.

        John Moore: So whose idea was it to revisit Pippin now?

        Stephen Schwartz: It was really (Director) Diane Paulus, who had been wanting to do it for quite a while. I was an admirer of her work, particularly on (the Broadway revival of) Hair, which I thought was excellent. I felt Diane had managed to both honor the original but also make it fresh, and that is a quite tricky line to walk. After I really got to see her way of thinking, and her creativity, in a show called Blue Flower at her (American Repertory Theatre) in Boston, I became enthusiastic that she was someone who might be able to pull this off. And, of course, she has proven that in spades.

        John Moore: So what did you think when Diane said, 'I want to put this in a circus'?

        Stephen Schwartz: I had actually heard the idea of a circus before. And it wasn't something that I thought was a great idea, to be honest, because I was picturing a different kind of circus. But then Diane, who has done work with Cirque du Soleil, told me about this troupe from Montreal called Les 7 doigts de la main, or ‘The 7 Fingers of the Hand.’ I went to see a show of theirs that happened to be touring the States. We discussed it further and I began to have a glimmer of what Diane was talking about. But I have to say that until I saw it, I really didn't truly understand what she meant, and what her vision was. I just didn't. I think that's one of the things about someone who is as gifted and as visionary as Diane. She had these ideas in her head that are difficult to express verbally -- but then when you see them, you get them.


        John Moore: And so now that you have lived in it, how do you articulate to people that this is the winning formula?

        Stephen Schwartz: That is a good question. Other than by assertion, I'm not sure that I know how to do that. It’s important for you to understand that Diane did not just overlay circus performance on top of the show as some kind of gimmick. First of all, she integrated the idea of the circus performances into the storytelling. It's not as if the show grinds to a halt and they do a circus trick, and then the story starts up again. Secondly, the way that she and Gypsy Snider did the circus part of the show, and the way Chet Walker did the choreography, is very special, I think. In some instances, the choreography is a very faithful re-creation of Bob Fosse's work. And in other places, I think what Chet has done is a very creative interpretation of what Bob might have done under these new circumstances. So it really is a complete re-envisioning of Pippin. This is a revisal as well as a revival of the show -- on all levels.

        John Moore: How do you think Bob would have liked this new approach?

        Stephen Schwartz: I think Bob would be thrilled with this. I think if we had been able to think of some of these changes together, he would have been extremely enthusiastic about them. Just the sheer sort of theatricality of the staging and this presentation, I think would have pleased him very much.

        John Moore: You have said the inspiration for Pippin actually comes from James Goldman’s play The Lion in Winter.

        Stephen Schwartz: That’s true. It started as a sort of a medieval court intrigue musical melodrama.  And then it gradually transmogrified into being semi-autobiographical. And then it turned into the story of my generation -- as I saw it.

        John Moore: So here’s a quick Lion in Winter story: I was reviewing a production by a venerable community theatre for The Denver Post. And as we are leaving, an older audience member sees my notebook and stops me. She says, ‘Now you be sure to put in your review that that was the most understandable Shakespeare play I have ever seen!’

        Stephen Schwartz (laughing): That is so great. And you know what? She is right. That is absolutely the best description of The Lion in Winter I have ever heard. I hope you put it in your review. That is perfect.

        John Moore: You bet I did.

        Stephen Schwartz: That is just hilarious.

        John Moore: So getting back to of Bob Fosse ... I've noticed over the years that whenever you are interviewed, you are so disarmingly honest in your answers. One might even say Pippin-esque --

        Stephen Schwartz: Yes, and that gets me into trouble a lot of the time.

        John Moore: Well I respect how you’ve openly discussed your initial, honest discomfort with how far Mr. Fosse was taking things. So I am wondering how you feel about this new version in those terms.

        Stephen Schwartz: I do feel quite honestly that there were some choices Bob made that I thought were just – well, overindulgent is the best word. That went beyond the concept of the sexuality that he injected into it.

        John Moore: And here’s where I think the real danger lies: It's not whether Broadway gets it right, or the national touring production, because you control that. But you can’t know how that indulgence expresses itself in local productions across the country that might not have someone to reign it in. I have seen productions of Pippin where they take that Bob Fosse element and they times it by 10.

        Stephen Schwartz: Yes, I know -- and that's so not the show. And it really misses the tone that Bob was going for, and I think largely succeeded with. What I like about this new production, is that, yes, it is still a very sexy show. And a lot of those elements that Bob created remain in the show intact. But I think Diane, with her intelligence -- and frankly with her taste -- never lets it go over the line. Even in the famed ‘sex ballet’ section, it doesn't go over the line, I feel.


        John Moore: You may get a kick out of the headline of my essay after having seen the new revival on Broadway last October. It read: "Broadway wins over a Pippin pessimist."

        Stephen Schwartz: Well you know what? That could MY headline on this one, too.

        John Moore: You’re kidding … Really?

        Stephen Schwartz: Oh, yeah. Because Roger and I resisted for so long going forward. I don't know if we were pessimistic, but we certainly had trepidation about it. And I think I can speak for Roger when I say we have been totally won over. I am just a huge fan of this production.

        John Moore: I never had any question about Pippin the character, or his story, because it's so clearly universal. I wrote, 'You don't have to be 17 and coming of age to feel this show in your open heart and rambling bones. You just have to have come of age.’ That has to be somewhat true of any 17-year-old of any century. But my first Pippin was a very small community theatre production in 1986, and I remember thinking that it felt like this was a signature work for its time – which was the 1970s, and already had passed. So at first, I wasn't sure how revisiting it in 2012 could really work, or why it was even necessary – not without turning it into a whole new modern, hipper theatre experience. But I think what impressed me the most about this new version was how muscular it was. I mean, this show is a true physical display of athletic and acrobatic skill.  I also thought it was just charming in how self-deprecating it was in its telling.

        Stephen Schwartz: I agree with all of that. So much of Pippin was of its time. It was written in the time of the Vietnam War and the Generation Gap and 'Don't trust anybody over 30.' And in that whole context, frankly, I think merely reproducing the original -- if that were even possible --  would have felt quite dated. That's one of the reasons I was optimistic when Diane approached me, because that's one of the things she achieved with Hair. It was of its time, but it had a contemporary sensibility. It was like living in the moment, and then looking at the moment at the same time -- and I thought that was a pretty remarkable achievement. Pippin is certainly less specifically of its time than Hair was of its, but I still think that's part of what Diane has achieved here.

        John Moore: I'm glad you brought up the Vietnam War, because I am of the generation that just missed most of that, so I did not grow up thinking of war as a universal. But now, everyone who is Pippin's age in America has lived their entire conscious lives with their country in a state of military conflict.

        Stephen Schwartz: Exactly.

        John Moore: … So maybe young people today will take a perspective into this new Pippin that's more in line with the young people who saw Pippin in 1972. War is a universal for this generation – because, for them, it’s always been there.

        Stephen Schwartz: Well, that's unfortunately a “for sure.” And in that same kind of controversial and divisive way that the Vietnam War was. It’s not like World War II, where everyone was united in thinking this was something that we had to do as a country. Iraq was extremely polarizing and divisive, so … yeah.

        John Moore: Let’s touch on a couple of other key elements. First, you have changed the ending. What can we say about that without giving anything away?

        Stephen Schwartz: Now, that is something I have no doubt Bob Fosse would have been happy with, if only we had thought of it back then. There are reasons we couldn't have – reasons that go beyond just that we weren't smart enough to think of it. But I will say this new ending is so clearly the right ending for the show.

        John Moore: Why do you say you two could not have eventually come up with this new idea the first time around?

        Stephen Schwartz: It has to do with the fact that, in the original show, the character of Theo was a little boy. He was 6. In this cast, he is a bit older than that.

        John Moore: OK, I am going to leave it at that.

        Stephen Schwartz: And so will I.

        Pippin_Stephen_Schwartz_Quote_4John Moore: You mentioned Ben Vereen. Obviously a huge change is having your Leading Player be played by a woman.

        Stephen Schwartz: I knew one of the problems we would have to overcome in doing any big, commercial revival of Pippin would be memory of Ben Vereen everybody would bring into it. You’d start out with people wanting to see that. And, of course, that's impossible. So we had to either somehow break that -- or overcome that. So when Diane said, 'Well, what if the character of the Leading Player is a woman?' -- that made us think, 'Well … then you can't be sitting there saying, ‘He’s no Ben Vereen!’ --  which is what I think any male performer would have encountered. Oddly enough, I feel like, now that we have done this -- If at some point in the future we wanted to go back to a male Leading Player, there are certain things about the way the show is written, and some of the new things that we have added -- particularly between the Leading Player and Catherine -- that I think would not go down as well if the Leading Player were male. It would seem a little brutal.

        John Moore: And before we leave: How great is it that you have John Rubinstein coming on board to play Pippin’s father after having originated the role of Pippin in 1972?

        Stephen Schwartz: Is that the best? I mean, is that the best ever? And this was not stunt casting. We walked into the auditions and John Rubinstein’s name was on the list. There were some other really good people, too. Of course, we were amazed and delighted that John was coming in to audition. But he was the best. Frankly, I don't think we would have done it if we hadn't felt that he was the best choice. But the idea of it was so irresistible. There was one moment in auditions, and it was only for Roger and me. John read the chapel scene and there is a line where Pippin says, 'Time has passed you by, father.’ And Charlemagne's line back is, 'And your time has come, my son?'  I mean, hearing that from John? I can't even talk about it. It was just so emotional to hear John Rubinstein say that line. I know it doesn't have the same resonance for people who are just seeing the show for the first time. But for Roger and me? That was a pretty emotional moment.

        John Moore was named one of the 12 most influential theater critics in the U.S by American Theatre Magazine in 2011. He has since taken a groundbreaking position as the Denver Center’s Senior Arts Journalist.

        Stephen Schwartz: Major works

        • Butterflies are Free, 1969
        • Godspell, 1971
        • Mass 1971
        • Pippin, 1972
        • The Magic Show, 1974
        • The Baker’s Wife ,1976
        • The Perfect Peach (children’s book), 1977
        • Working ,1978
        • Personals, 1985
        • Captain Louie (children’s show), 1986
        • Rags, 1986
        • Children of Eden, 1991
        • Pocahontas, 1995
        • The Hunchback of Notre Dame, 1996
        • Reluctant Pilgrim (CD of 11 songs), 1997
        • The Prince of Egypt, 1998
        • Geppetto 2000 (re-named My Son Pinocchio)
        • Uncharted Territory (CD of 11 songs), 2001
        • Wicked, 2003
        • Mit Eventyr/My Fairytale, 2005
        • Séance on a Wet Afternoon, 2009


        'The Pippin Profiles':  

        • Circus Creator Gyspy Snyder
        • Choreographer Chet Walker
        • Composer Stephen Schwartz (today)
        • Director Diane Paulus (coming next)
        • Actor John Rubinstein (Charlemagne)
        • Actor Kyle Selig (Pippin)
        • Actor Sasha Allen (Leading PLayer)
        • Actor Luci Arnaz (Berthe)
        • Actor Sabrina Harper (Fastrada)
        • Actor Kristine Reese (Catherine)

        Pippin: Ticket information

        Sept 6-20, 2014 • Buell Theatre
        Accessible Performances • Sep 20, 2pm
        Tickets: 303.893.4100 • Toll-free: 800.641.1222 • TTY: 303.893.9582
        Groups (10+) • 303.446.4829
        Online • www.DenverCenter.Org

        Previous Pippin coverage on MyDenverCenter.Org:

        My three Pippins gather at Sardi's to honor John Rubinstein
        Photos: Exclusive look at first 'Pippin' rehearsal
        Lucie Arnaz joins Denver-bound ‘Pippin’ as Berthe

        From Pippin to Pappa: Denver tour launch will feature John Rubinstein
        2014-15 season: ‘Pippin,’ ‘Kinky Boots’ are Denver-bound!

      • The 'Pippin' Profiles: Bob Fosse protégé Chet Walker

        by John Moore | Aug 14, 2014
        Chet_Walker_Pippin_1Choreographer Chet Walker believes the legendary Bob Fosse "had a style, not a technique."

        (Note: "The Pippin Profiles" is a series of interviews by Arts Journalist John Moore with the "Pippin The Musical" cast and creative team leading up to the launch of the first national touring production in Denver on Sept. 6. Today: Choreographer Chet Walker.)  

        Bob Fosse has been gone for 27 years, but protégé Chet Walker still refers to the icon of modern dance exclusively as “Mr. Fosse.”

        “He deserves that respect,” Walker said.

        When Walker met Fosse in 1972, “I was the size of a peanut,” he said. Walker was 16 and auditioning to join the cast of Fosse’s TV concert, Liza with a Z. Two years later, he was added to the company of Pippin, playing a peasant. That led to several impressionable years “behind the table” assisting and observing Fosse, who died in 1987. Walker then conceived the Broadway tribute Fosse, which won the 1989 Tony Award for best musical. 

        Walker doesn’t know the driven, oversexed hothead many people remember as the semi-fictional character Roy Scheider played in the Fosse-directed film, All that Jazz. The mentor Walker knew never raised his voice or got angry. He says the primary lessons Fosse taught him were “humanity, how to be with people and how to listen.”

        Wait … not technique?

        'That’s the thing: Mr. Fosse didn’t have a technique,” said Walker. “What he did have was incredible style.”


        When Pippin Director Diane Paulus knew she wanted to bring Pippin back to life and set it in the athletic and sensuous world of circus acrobatics and gymnastics -- “we knew we had to bring back the Fosse, too,” she said. “It's just too connected.”

        Paulus also knew there was only one man for the job of "bringing back the Fosse": Choreographer Chet Walker.

        “He had worked with Fosse for years, and so having Chet was so important to me,” she said.

        When Paulus told Walker she wanted to transplant Stephen Schwartz and Roger O. Hinson’s quintessential musical search for meaning inside the world of the circus, she got all the confirmation she needed that she was on the right path from Walker. “He told us about Fosse’s fascination with all things (Federico) Fellini and clowns,” Paulus said. “And really that’s all over even the original choreography. It’s almost inside the DNA of the original production.”

        When they got into the rehearsal room, Pippin Circus Creator Gypsy Snyder says Walker “was the holder of all things Fosse.” But the goal was not – except in certain circumstances, to merely re-create Fosse’s signature choreography. It was to tell the story “in the style of Mr. Fosse,” Walker said.

        In a wide-ranging interview, Walker talks about being “the keeper of the Fosse flame,” and what exactly “the style of Mr. Fosse” really means. And take our word for it – it ain’t “jazz hands” .... 

        John Moore: What goes through your mind when you’re told, ‘You are the only person for this job’?

        Chet Walker: It's interesting because I didn't know exactly what ‘my job’ was going to be in the beginning, or how it was all going to work. You had what Gypsy was doing with the circus, and then you had Diane’s vision, and then there was this question of how to incorporate Mr. Fosse's work -- or the work that would be in his style. We knew we should not just try to repeat Mr. Fosse's work, because the concept of this show is very different. So … it was daunting, I can tell you that. To be honest, I didn’t really know how to do it at first. But Diane is such an amazing director, and she was very clear as to the possibilities. So we literally looked at all the possibilities of how the circus and dance and acting could all work together, and I think we ultimately got it to be very seamless. But I don't think we knew exactly how to do that in the beginning.

        John Moore: That had to be the fun of it though, wasn’t it -- the not knowing?

        Chet Walker: Oh, yes. But you have to understand that back in the 1970s, we didn't question anything. We did what Mr. Fosse said to do. He was a Svengali in a very positive way. You see, I wasn't in the original Pippin cast. I came in when everyone went to Chicago, about two years after it first opened. Back then, our entire version of Pippin was based on Mr. Fosse's vision of that show. When you look at this new version of the show, very little has changed in the script, and nothing at all has changed in the music. And yet nevertheless … it's a whole different show. It's amazing that after 40 years the same story can be told in a whole different arena. It's not really a revival, per se … I believe it is truly a new show.

        John Moore: What were your first impressions of meeting Mr. Fosse?

        Chet Walker: Oh my gosh, I was a mere child. I went to the audition for Liza with a Z. I had my tights on, my white little socks, my ballet shoes and a black and green and white striped shirt. I was the size of a peanut. It was a Saturday, and it was raining, and I really don't know why I even showed up. But I did. I was this embryonic little person surrounded by all of these men. But the way that Mr. Fosse responded to me was not like he responded to anybody else. He allowed me to stay. He was kind, and so generous. The whole time, my eyes were just … open. I had not been around a male figure like that before. A lot of my dancing teachers were female, so I had never really been around a dominating male figure who was that charismatic. I mean, let’s face it: The guy was charismatic.


        John Moore: What did you learn from him?

        Chet Walker: His teaching wasn't like teaching. It was like observation. It was like being in a lab and being able to observe everything from many different points of view. A lot of the people who were around him were muses, or people he was creating things for. I was really a different person in the room. Yes, I was a performer for him, but my relationship was always behind the table, talking about why, when, how this and that. And that made my relationship with him so different. So when people talk about him the way they do, I don't recognize this person that they talk about.

        John Moore: After spending so many years over his shoulder, what was it like when it was your time to step forward?

        Chet Walker: Well, his passing made that happen. When he passed away while we were doing Sweet Charity, I figured I would just be a dancer for as long as I could dance, and that would be it. On his passing, yes, mine was one of the shoulders it was put on. I would go out and do all kinds of things that were related to Mr. Fosse. But I had created what we now know as (the musical) Fosse long before it was called Fosse.  It started with a TV show that I brought to him back in 1985. And it took me 15 years to finally get it to where it was a Broadway show. That was a huge responsibility -- but it was one that I wanted to have. When you want to have a responsibility, it's not such a hardship. And boy, you think you know someone … until you start to really do the work. I remember on my first meeting with him about the show, I brought all my research to him. And he looks at it and says, 'Well you know, this is not everything I've done.' And I’m like, ‘Oh no?’ He would always have that smirk because he would tell you things and you would say, 'Oh my God, you're kidding me -- You did that, too?' It was interesting. The whole process of knowing this man and knowing his work and watching how he worked in the business ... you can't go to school for that.

        John Moore: I mean this next question in all sincerity, although it's going to sound provocative. But I think you have made quite a legacy for yourself when a man from the dance world, which is not widely known by the general public, is identifiable by the mere saying of the words … ‘Jazz hands.’ Everyone knows you are talking about Bob Fosse.

        Chet Walker: Well I never equate that to Mr. Fosse, because ‘jazz hands’ is a position. And in Mr. Fosse's world, those hands in a dance would have ended up being some sort of imagery. It's funny because people go, 'I'm a Fosse dancer,' and I always go, 'Well, that's interesting, because if you didn't actually work with Mr. Fosse, then you are not a Fosse dancer. It's sort of like, 'You're not a Balanchine dancer unless you have worked with Mr. Balanchine. Now, you may have learned from other Balanchine dancers, which is just phenomenal, but … it's not the same thing. Mr. Fosse would never have called what he did 'Fosse.' Do you know what I mean? He would never have said, 'OK everyone, today, we are going to do Fosse.' What he did was all imagery. It’s weird because people like to say, 'Oh, I am going to teach the technique of Bob Fosse,' and I say, 'But he didn't have a technique.' He had an incredible style. I don't believe that there is any one person other than Jack Cole who had a specific, ‘Wow pow, oh my gosh’ moment like Mr. Fosse. Now, Jack Cole had both a technique, and a style. But Mr. Fosse didn't have a technique per se. He had a style that was amazing.


        John Moore: And how would you describe that style?

        Chet Walker: Well, it’s unlike anyone else's. Other choreographers use many kinds of styles. And many of those styles were unbelievable. But Mr. Fosse's? When you see that walk, or you see those arms --  it is just kind of breathtaking. It really is, because it's not something that you see all the time. There is such acting in it. There is such imagery in it. It's not just dance movement. There is drama, there is humor, there is entertainment. If you look at any musical that Mr. Fosse ever had his hand in, there was always something that I call ‘the underbelly.’ There's always an underneath side of what's going on. He totally could entertain you, but if you look beyond the entertainment aspect of it, he's probably saying something else. And in Pippin -- most definitely. When Mr. Schwartz wrote this with Roger O. Hinson in the 1970s, there were a lot of things going on that pertained to the piece -- Charles Manson, the war, what our government was doing. Things were not always as they appeared. Mr. Fosse was very much an advocate of making it show business, and making it so that you can see the show of it. So we have a whole war section in Pippin. And then there's this whole business of The Manson Trio. That’s an iconic piece of vaudeville as we are tap-dancing through the war. And if you relate that back to Vietnam or any other war that this country has ever gone through, there's a lot that seems to be a cover-up. There is a lot of not wanting to actually see it for what it is. There is a lot of show business to it. Mr. Fosse was such a patriotic man.


        Anthony Wayne, Patina Miller and Andrew Fitch perform Bob Fosse's iconic "The Manson Trio" in the 2013 Broadway revival of "Pippin." Photo by Joan Marcus.

        John Moore: You have said Mr. Fosse called the signature Manson Trio dance that because the Leading Player is a bit of a charismatic cult leader, as was Charles Manson. That he liked the juxtaposition of song-and-dance with people being killed. So will we see The Manson Trio in the new Pippin?

        Chet Walker: Absolutely. The Manson Trio is all his. That's Mr. Fosse's. That's not mine. There would be no way I could have ever created anything more perfect than that.

        John Moore: When you see any Fosse show today, you still know instantly who originally choreographed it. Can you talk about how Mr. Fosse lives on in what you’ve done?

        Chet Walker: Well, thanks that you think that. I think when you look at what we have created in Pippin, you will see a sense of showmanship to the circus, and to the theatrical. Hopefully I have paid homage to him well, and that you probably have never seen anything quite like it before.

        John Moore: We've all seen wonderful Broadway shows that play well in front of 1,000 people, and then they go out on the road and get swallowed up in these large, 3,000-seat roadhouses. But here the dancing and the circus element and the aerials actually allow Pippin the unique opportunity to actually grow into the space and take advantage of the larger canvas.     
        Chet Walker: This show can be played to a huge audience or to a small audience, and I think it works for both. There's going to be an intimacy to it no matter what, because the story is intimate. But the story is also huge. It is small, but it's also so impactful. And then when you see all that we have happening on that stage, I think that's what makes it so powerful.”
        John Moore: Considering the gymnastics and high-flying and the muscular nature of this new Pippin, do you think if these performance techniques were available in the 1970s, Mr. Fosse would have done this same thing himself?

        Chet Walker: Oh, I think so. He absolutely loved clowns, and he collected all kinds of things about clowns. You never can really know what people would have thought, but if someone had come up with the idea of doing this in 1972, I think Mr. Fosse would have jumped on the bandwagon. He would have gone for the challenge and wanted to see what that was all about. Totally.

        John Moore was named one of the 12 most influential theater critics in the U.S by American Theatre Magazine in 2011. He has since taken a groundbreaking position as the Denver Center’s Senior Arts Journalist.

        'The Pippin Profiles':  

        • Circus Creator Gyspy Snyder
        • Choreographer Chet Walker (today)
        • Composer Stephen Schwartz (coming up)
        • Director Diane Paulus (coming up)
        • Plus ... select members of the acting company


        Pippin: Ticket information

        Sept 6-20, 2014 • Buell Theatre
        Accessible Performances • Sep 20, 2pm
        Tickets: 303.893.4100 • Toll-free: 800.641.1222 • TTY: 303.893.9582
        Groups (10+) • 303.446.4829
        Online • www.DenverCenter.Org


        Previous Pippin coverage on MyDenverCenter.Org:

        My three Pippins gather at Sardi's to honor John Rubinstein
        Photos: Exclusive look at first 'Pippin' rehearsal
        Lucie Arnaz joins Denver-bound ‘Pippin’ as Berthe

        From Pippin to Pappa: Denver tour launch will feature John Rubinstein
        2014-15 season: ‘Pippin,’ ‘Kinky Boots’ are Denver-bound!



      • The 'Pippin' Profiles: Circus Creator Gypsy Snider

        by John Moore | Aug 09, 2014

        To lifetime circus performer Gypsy Snider, "circus is like eating and sleeping and family." Photo courtesy Gypsy Snider. 


        Note: "The Pippin Profiles" is a series of interviews by Arts Journalist John Moore with the "Pippin The Musical" cast and creative team leading up to the launch of the first national touring production in Denver on Sept. 6. First up: Circus Creator Gypsy Snider.

        In Pippin the Musical, a family of circus performers defies death to tell their story with every flip, tumble and mid-air spin.

        The same is true of those actors performing in Pippin the Musical.

        And the same has been true of Pippin Circus Creator Gypsy Snider since she began her career as a circus performer at the tender age of 4. 

        With all respect to Stephen Schwartz, composer of Wicked and Pippin, Snider was defying gravity long before Elphaba was a green twinkle in his orchestral eye.

        Snider’s parents are the founders of San Francisco’s pioneering Pickle Family Circus, an acclaimed alternative circus often cited as a primary influence on the creation of Cirque du Soleil. Snider is the co-founder of Montreal’s 7 Fingers (Les 7 doigts de la main), a pioneering form of live entertainment that has twice brought Traces to Denver. That innovative show used astonishing displays of athletic skill to tell the real-life stories of seven street teens.

        Snider embraces circus as its own narrative storytelling form. Her brand of physical theatre requires strength, agility and grace.

        Her upbringing was like no other. She grew up around the likes of circus legends Bill Irwin and Geoff Hoyle. She appeared among an entire town of street performers in Robert Altman's 1980 film Popeye. By 18, she was attending a physical-theater school in Switzerland.

        She co-founded 7 Fingers in 2002 and, for her first foray into Broadway, she was called upon by Pippin Director Diane Paulus to help re-tell Schwartz’s iconic story of a young prince’s quest for meaning in life set within the world of circus. Pippin won the 2013 Tony Award for best musical revival. Its first national touring production launches at Denver’s Buell Theatre on Sept. 6.

        Modern audiences who have a familiarity with circus generally think of Cirque du Soleil. But while Snider toured with Cirque and has a deep love for it, she says Pippin should not be mistaken for it. If anything, she said, it should evoke the old days of the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus.

        “This is old-school, hard-core circus,” she said.

        We’re talking juggling knives and swallowing fire.

        “I would say that Cirque du Soleil is like the grandfather, and we are the rebellious teenagers,” she said.

        Pippin culminates with a boy becoming a man, having to choose between a life of adventure or family. Snider has never had to pick  between the two – her small children are also embracing the circus life. But Snider’s life turned upside down in 2008, when she were diagnosed with advanced-stage colon cancer.

        “It was definitely a life-changing experience,” she said. Much surgery, chemotherapy chemotherapy and radiation followed.

        “Suddenly, my work felt trivial and my family became more important than ever before,” Snider said in a previous interview with Broadway Buzz. “I began to question how taxing show business can be and wondered if I should just move to the country and raise my two daughters in a stress-free environment, instead of in the glory of this wonderful but all consuming lifestyle. It was during this difficult time that Diane Paulus reached out to me about the possibility of collaborating on a new production of Pippin.”

        And when she did, her charge to Snider was simple:

        “Come make this thrilling.”

        Here are more excerpts from our recent conversation with Snider for MyDenverCenter.Org. It took place just before rehearsals were to begin for the national touring production of Pippin as Snider and her family were visiting her parents' family retreat in the Berkshires.

        The Broadway cast of "Pippin," above. The first national touring production of the iconic musical, with circus creations by Gypsy Snider, launches in Denver on Sept. 6. Photo by Joan Marcus.


        John Moore: When you brought Traces to Denver in 2011, could you have even imagined what your immediate future had in store for you?

        Gypsy Snider: Actually, Denver plays a semi-big part in this. When I was working in Denver, I saw all of the other productions that were being staged there at the time. I remember sitting there watching the (Denver Center Theatre Company’s) A Midsummer Night's Dream. That’s when I knew that I wanted to get back to the States, that I wanted to work in the English language and that I wanted to work in the theatre. I remember saying that to (Denver Center for the Performing Arts President) Randy Weeks afterward. I got really excited about the possibilities from Denver on.

        John Moore: How did the Pippin opportunity come about?

        Gypsy Snider: My first conversation with (Director) Diane Paulus and (Producer) Barry Weissler coincided with Traces being in Denver. She had just done a Cirque production called Amaluna, so she was really starting to be familiar with the Montreal circus scene. She had already seen tons of videos of things we had done. Barry had been following us for several years. At my first meeting with him in New York, I was like, 'What am I doing? How did I end up here?’ But Barry said, ‘Look, I don't know what to do with you. But I know that I love what you do.’ And so, he continued to follow our shows. Later on, when Diane said, ‘I think we need to put circus into the Pippin story,’ Barry said, ‘How about Gypsy? And she said, 'I totally know who you are talking about.’ And so then they sent me the script.

        John Moore: I read somewhere that you had never seen Pippin before.

        Gypsy Snider: No, I had not. Maybe I had remotely heard the music, but I didn't associate it with the story. So I read the book and … it’s a very strange piece of literature. But I fell in love with it. I instantly knew what I wanted to do with it. I read it in one hour in my bed and I just … knew. When I met with Diane, I rambled on and on. I had no idea what I was getting into. But she was sold.

        John Moore: Sounds to me like you are the rambling river in that story.

        Gypsy Snider: Oh, Diane Paulus is a big river instigator. She saw my enthusiasm. And when she feels someone has an idea that is flowing, she does an incredible job of pushing that flow and guiding that flow.

        John Moore: What specifically did you bring to the creative conversation?

        Gypsy Snider: At 7 Fingers, we have a way of bringing emotion and texture into acrobatics. In a way, I think the passion and the theatricality that circus brings to it quickly became the backbone of this new project. Of course, Bob Fosse and Stephen Schwartz are the backbone of Pippin. But in terms of rejuvenating it, the circus became the backbone of doing it this way. 

        John Moore: What was it like high-flying into the world of the original Pippin choreographer, the late Bob Fosse?

        Gypsy Snider: I was fascinated to learn the extent to which Bob Fosse was a huge influence on my career -- unbeknown to me. There is a kind of sexuality and a violence in his artwork that I always need whenever I am creating a show. I know that sex and violence sells TV shows, but Fosse really criticized the entertainment industry for the addictive and seductive nature of sexuality and violence in entertainment. I don't mean to go off on a crazy tangent, but if we are talking about seducing Pippin into a living a more extraordinary life by luring him into something that could be potentially fatal … that’s the entertainment industry. In that way, we are really looking at a retrospective of Fosse's life. That's what I found so, so fascinating about it. And then there is the innocent side of Pippin: The loving family man, the “corner of the sky” Pippin. That was absolutely the Stephen Schwartz that I got to know, amazingly, through this production. He's just so positive and so hard-working.

        John Moore: How do you think Bob Fosse would have liked the idea of setting Pippin in a circus?

        Gypsy Snider: I feel like Bob Fosse would have wanted us to do this, and that he would have done it himself if this were available to him at the time. Maybe not to this extent, but …  it was there. It was already there in the words.

        John Moore: With this reimagined version of Pippin – both setting it in the circus and, more tellingly, in consideration of the life choice Pippin faces in the end – it seems to me as if maybe Diane Paulus is saying that Pippin is you.

        Gypsy Snider: I think so. Diane and I are both the same age, and we both have two daughters. We have discussed on a very personal level the seduction of the business and this balance you try to achieve, being professional women who have families. It’s really like we are the Catherines -- but we are also being seduced like the Pippins.  It was interesting for both of us how we connected on an emotional level to this musical. Pippin has this choice to make, and one of them it to embrace this simple home life with an older woman and her child living out in the country where there is no magic and there is no makeup -- which is something Fosse presented in a very boring, very pejorative manner. And yet here I am talking to you right now while I am out here in the country with my children -- and I love it. But I also love my work. I feed on it so much, and I am proud to show my children how passionate I am about my work.

        John Moore: For 40 years, both audiences and writers alike have argued whether the ending to Pippin is a tragedy ... or a compromise ... or a perfect, happy ending. I imagine, given your life story, that you are split right down the middle.

        Gypsy Snider: I am split down the middle. For me, circus is like eating and sleeping and family. It's my brother; it's my mother; it's my father. Just talking about it makes me so emotional. There were maybe a few moments in my life when I felt like walking away from it, or perhaps trying something totally different. Circus is a very physically demanding life. It's a very itinerant life. And when my kids started going to school, I was like, ‘What am I doing?’ But circus is my family, too. Sometimes I like to think of it as the mafia because it's a very closed, tight-knit circle. But the reason is because there is so much danger and risk and sacrifice involved. True circus people know each other, and there is a whole sort of respect and value system to it that is so honorable and so genuine and so truthful. To true circus people, there is no nonsense. There is no competition. There is no, 'I am better than you are.' There is no, 'I am going to be a star, but you are not going to be a star.' Each individual circus performer is absolutely unique, and that uniqueness is valued. There is no one way to do anything. Unfortunately, it's not like dance. To survive in the dance world, you have to sacrifice so much of your individuality and soul. Everyone wants to play Romeo, for example. In circus, that is not ever an issue. People don't compare themselves. There is somehow a place for everyone.

        John Moore: How do you feel about getting the whole Pippin creative team together and doing this all over again with a new cast?

        Gypsy Snider: Diane, (Choreographer Chet Walker) and I have been talking about how exciting it is going to be to get back in the room.  I am feeling like this is going to be an incredible reunion for all three of us.

        John Moore: Well, then … welcome in advance to Denver.

        Gypsy Snider: I am so excited.  There is a place in Denver that sells poutine (gravy fries with cheese curds), so I am definitely looking forward to that.

        John Moore was named one of the 12 most influential theater critics in the U.S by American Theatre Magazine in 2011. He has since taken a groundbreaking position as the Denver Center’s Senior Arts Journalist.

        Coming up on the Pippin Profiles:  

        • Choreographer Chet Walker
        • Director Diane Paulus
        • Composer Stephen Schwartz
        • Plus ... select members of the acting company


        Pippin: Ticket information

        Sept 6-20, 2014 • Buell Theatre
        Accessible Performances • Sep 20, 2pm
        Tickets: 303.893.4100 • Toll-free: 800.641.1222 • TTY: 303.893.9582
        Groups (10+) • 303.446.4829
        Online • www.DenverCenter.Org


        Previous "Pippin" coverage on MyDenverCenter.Org:

        My three Pippins gather at Sardi's to honor John Rubinstein
        Photos: Exclusive look at first 'Pippin' rehearsal
        Lucie Arnaz joins Denver-bound ‘Pippin’ as Berthe

        From Pippin to Pappa: Denver tour launch will feature John Rubinstein
        2014-15 season: ‘Pippin,’ ‘Kinky Boots’ are Denver-bound!

      John Moore
      John Moore
      Award-winning arts journalist John Moore has recently taken a groundbreaking new position as the DCPA’s Senior Arts Journalist. With The Denver Post, he was named one of the 12 most influential theater critics in the US by American Theatre Magazine. He is the founder of the Denver Actors Fund, a nonprofit that raises money for local artists in medical need. John is a native of Arvada and attended Regis Jesuit High School and the University of Colorado at Boulder. Follow him on Twitter @moorejohn.

      DCPA is the nation’s largest not-for-profit theatre organization dedicated to creating unforgettable shared experiences through beloved Broadway musicals, world-class plays, educational programs and inspired events. We think of theatre as a spark of life — a special occasion that’s exciting, powerful and fun. Join us today and we promise an experience you won't soon forget.